Achei interessante colocar aqui os comentários da experiencia de um condutor de inglaterra. Talvez possa ajudar aqueles que estão indecisos nestes modelos ou semelhantes.
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This if my first post...
BMW 320d v Lexus IS220d
The following is my impressions of the two cars after a 4 day evaluation.
Background, to help me decide on my comapany provided wheels for the next 3 years and circa 120,000 miles, I managed to get a 4 day test drive of each of the cars ie. drop off monday morning collect friday afternoon.
While I live in Lancashire (North West of England), I work monday to friday in Scotland and so I had the chance to take in various driving conditions the basics of which were
Motorway M6, M74 - North of Lancaster the M6 has next to no traffic so a sustained 90mph on cruise control is possible for many interupted miles (total bliss!)
A701 - This is the scenic route from M74 to Edinburgh and is in my oppinion one of the best driving roads in the country, 50 miles of empty tarmac with fabulous bends and the ability to see well into the distance for on-comming traffic a joy to drive and a real test of a cars handling and composure.
Motorway M8 - typical stop start and bumper to bumper sub 70mph motorway slog on a par with the worst bits of M1, M6, M25 - horrible but bearable in the right car.
Glasgow and Edinburgh city centre - typical big city congestion and third world standard pot holed roads.
First impressions
Lexus - driver arrived at 7.30am, car was exactly as requested and spotless clean. model IS220d base model with multimedia upgrade (Mark L. stereo, sat.nav, bluetooth), Messa Red, beidge interior. Mileage 7,000
BMW - driver arrived early afternoon car was not as requested (320dES not 320dSE). Car was brand new, Black, black interior with only 500 miles on the clock
Winner Lexus
Looks and style
Lexus - very good looking car although 17inch alloys finish it off to perfection, wife was deeply impressed stating no way could I get this car way to posh, neighbour opposite came over to admire the car though it was fantastic, other neighbour loved it but was not happy as reckons its much nicer than his A4.
BMW - very boring, no one noticed, wife instantly disliked it saying it was dull and dismal, I had to agree it did not feel in the least bit special
Winner Lexus
Interior space, driving environment
Lexus - superb in the front, difficult to get into in the back and definitely on the tight side (tough on the kids then!). Cockpit and instruments exude quality and really make you feel special, seat adjustment is easy, hand brake is too high and has to be pulled very hard to engage but a very very nice place to be for hours on end. Boot is not very big but I can put a top box on for holidays.
BMW - space in front and back is better than Lexus, boot is bigger plus no spare wheel. Cockpit quality is very good possibly slightly better than Lexus (not up to Audi standards) but it is all so dull, boring, functional and does not justify the high price. The seats are hard to adjust (dangerous if on the move!) as the height requires you to lift your body weight and let the seat catch you up, seatback adjustment is via a lever and you end up too far back or forward, much prefer the Lexus rotary nob. BMW seem to have addopted Vauxhalls daft one touch approach to control stalks and with the wipers I was never sure what they were set to, please can manufacturers leave one touch well alone.
Overall the BMW cockpit would have been ok in a base model mondeo or vectra but is simply outclassed by the luxury of the Lexus.
Winner BMW for space, Lexus for environment you takes your pick
Gearbox / gearing
Lexus - notchy from first to second, slightly long throw but perfectly useable, reverse easy to find. I have read numerous critisism of the high Lexus gearing, I agree it is not perfect and can lead to the car labouring but for me I loved the very high 6th gear, at 85-95mph were many of us drive when conditions allow, it is perfect leading to turbine smooth relaxed low rev. crusing. 60-70 on off driving on a congested motorway would suit 5th better which feels like top on most cars.
BMW - very notchy and rather unpleasant, this could be down to low mileage and seemed to improve noticeably if you pushed the clutch to the floor when changing but this is not how I like to drive. Reverse was very challenging to engage often needing several very hard and unatural pushs downwards and across
to engage. BMW have got the gearing spot on if only the box shifted better, see what you think I may have got a duffer as I normally love BMW gearboxes.
Winner - a draw, BMW if you get one with a good gearbox
Engine and performance
Lexus - The Lexus diesel engine was beautifully smooth and quiet and I really can't recognise the critisim motoring jornos have made. The power delivery is not as uniform as the BMW with a noticable lag till approx 1,800rpm when a huge dollop of power and torque kicks in followed by a tail off around 4,000rpm.
If it were not compared to the BMW, the power delivery would be seen as fabulous but it always seems to take a fraction longer to respond and wind up the power than the BMW. Refinment wise, I think the Lexus has the edge, more because it issolates engine rumble and noise better. There is no way I'm going back to petrol now we have such fantastic diesels. The Lexus is a little slow of the mark but in the right gear it goes like stink with effortless overtaking ability. On clear motorways you really need cruise control as the very tall 6th lulls you into a perception of slower speed, take your eye of the ball and you are hitting 120mph in no time and with the supreme quietness of the car it feels like 70mph
BMW - This engine is equally impresive for smoothness and quietness however it has the edge in terms of power delivery with a broad power/torque band very similar to a petrol. The engine intrudes into the cockpit more with noticeable rumble if your hand is sat on the gear stick at idel and a definite vibration through the clutch pedal if you leave your foot resting gently on the pedal at speed as I do. The BMW also provides storming performance and instant overtaking wallop, this is a seriously quick point to point car.
Winner - BMW by a fraction but both are superb
Economy
Lexus - I was deeply worried about fuel economy after reading scare stories of low 30's mpg. My economy over 761.1 miles was exactly 42mpg both from the on-board computer and by brimming and refilling the tank. Much better than I expected and close to my present A4 TDI average of 45mpg
BMW - I was expecting the BMW to wipe the floor with the Lexus and get close to 45/46mpg. Over 648.4 miles I averaged 42.5mpg again by on-board computer and tank briming. I expect the BMW will probably increase by 10% once it lossens up but not the convincing win I expected.
Winner - BMW
Drive,suspension and Handling
Lexus - After reading the press mags, I was expecting a disapointing drivers car however the Lexus handled precisely and kept its composure very well down the A701. The car goes exactly where you want it to and does not roll or heave around the bends. It also has excelent streight line stability making overtaking artics/tractors on narrow roads/lanes very confident. The ride and suspension are lovely and smooth unquestionably better than the BMW on good surfaces the ride is like gliding on air. Potholes and road noise are very well subdued.
BMW - One thing the jornos have got right is the BMW being a drivers car, it really does handle fantastic and you find yourself bombing down roads at a far higher speed than you would think possible. The ride and suspension are very good but definitely harder than the Lexus and a little more tiring on a long bumpy journey. On two occasions the BMW tail swung out then re-bit the road and streightend up nothing too off putting but somehow the numerous stability controls seemed to be asleep. Note I'm not one for switching such devices off. Overall if you live for driving like a bat out of hell and value this above a comfortable, soft, compliant ride, the BMW is for you but the Lexus is perfectly ok for me.
Winner - BMW for racers, Lexus for occasional racers
Equipment and value for money
Lexus - this is a no contest for me, the Lexus smashes the BMW on standard kit and equipment. The attention to detail is fantastic and the little things I though were gimmicks such as puddle lights and keyless entry are truely desirable once you have tried them. My car came with the ammitedly expensive multimendia upgrade, Mark Levison stereo (no I don't know who he is either), sat nav, bluetooth, DVD player and reversing camera, its worth every penny.
Check your mobile will bluetooth and transfer address book numbers as there are some compatibility concerns and I would rather have had digital radio than the additional speakers and amps which can't be appreciated when listening to Radio 4/5. I'm dreading replacing the Lexus in 3 years as it has every toy I
can imagine absolutely fantastic and great value for money. The DVD player let me watch the Simpsons when sat in stationery traffic - tops!
BMW - What a disapointment the 320d ES was. The radio is confusing and overly complicated, the ES has manual aircon no climate control or separate zones, there is no cruise control, the drivers arm rest is set too far back and for me was an uncomfortable obstacle which you can't move, you can upgrade to a sliding arm rest for peanuts but why don't BMW just provide this as standard? The interior made me feel like I was driving a bargin basement bottom of the range former eastern block car. I know this is one up from the bottom of the 3 series range and all my criticisms can be put right by buying options but the spec. and drab interior look was way behind Fords, Vauxhalls, Hondas et al and yet the price is way above.
Dealer service
Lexus - Went to Lexus Glasgow one evening rush hour to see an IS in the flesh, the sales woman was superb, taking time to tell me all about the car despite me saying it was a company purchase and all they might get by way of a sale was the servicing. A traffic warden approached and they offered to move my car
for me and avoid a ticket, they also offered to ring me when they had the colour I wanted so I could see it. I felt very wanted and special - fantastic.
BMW - Went to BMW dealer (name witheld) and asked about 3 series, the sales man pointed and said 'have a look they are all parked outside' and walked off
needless to say so did I.
Winner - Lexus
Niggles - Rear view mirror vibrates on motorway making it very difficult to spot police cars from behind and making you feel ill over time, digital radio would be good, 17 inch alloys on base model would be good
Overall - You can probably tell I was very impressed with the IS220D, so much so I have ordered one and it arrives 24th October !!!! can't wait.
I've read pretty much every IS review (Whatcar, Topgear, AutoExpress,Autocar,Test Drive,Fifth Gear, nearly spent more on car mags than on the eventual car and stressed Google to breaking point with searches) and I can truly say many of them are so so off the mark with their obsession with the 3 series, its good but simply not as good as the IS.
The IS is a car that makes you feel very special every time you drive it, gets lots of attention and is fantatstic if you have to spend hours every day at the wheel.
Hope this helps you decide which is best
Hope I'm still impressed 3 years and 120,000 miles from now
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This if my first post...
BMW 320d v Lexus IS220d
The following is my impressions of the two cars after a 4 day evaluation.
Background, to help me decide on my comapany provided wheels for the next 3 years and circa 120,000 miles, I managed to get a 4 day test drive of each of the cars ie. drop off monday morning collect friday afternoon.
While I live in Lancashire (North West of England), I work monday to friday in Scotland and so I had the chance to take in various driving conditions the basics of which were
Motorway M6, M74 - North of Lancaster the M6 has next to no traffic so a sustained 90mph on cruise control is possible for many interupted miles (total bliss!)
A701 - This is the scenic route from M74 to Edinburgh and is in my oppinion one of the best driving roads in the country, 50 miles of empty tarmac with fabulous bends and the ability to see well into the distance for on-comming traffic a joy to drive and a real test of a cars handling and composure.
Motorway M8 - typical stop start and bumper to bumper sub 70mph motorway slog on a par with the worst bits of M1, M6, M25 - horrible but bearable in the right car.
Glasgow and Edinburgh city centre - typical big city congestion and third world standard pot holed roads.
First impressions
Lexus - driver arrived at 7.30am, car was exactly as requested and spotless clean. model IS220d base model with multimedia upgrade (Mark L. stereo, sat.nav, bluetooth), Messa Red, beidge interior. Mileage 7,000
BMW - driver arrived early afternoon car was not as requested (320dES not 320dSE). Car was brand new, Black, black interior with only 500 miles on the clock
Winner Lexus
Looks and style
Lexus - very good looking car although 17inch alloys finish it off to perfection, wife was deeply impressed stating no way could I get this car way to posh, neighbour opposite came over to admire the car though it was fantastic, other neighbour loved it but was not happy as reckons its much nicer than his A4.
BMW - very boring, no one noticed, wife instantly disliked it saying it was dull and dismal, I had to agree it did not feel in the least bit special
Winner Lexus
Interior space, driving environment
Lexus - superb in the front, difficult to get into in the back and definitely on the tight side (tough on the kids then!). Cockpit and instruments exude quality and really make you feel special, seat adjustment is easy, hand brake is too high and has to be pulled very hard to engage but a very very nice place to be for hours on end. Boot is not very big but I can put a top box on for holidays.
BMW - space in front and back is better than Lexus, boot is bigger plus no spare wheel. Cockpit quality is very good possibly slightly better than Lexus (not up to Audi standards) but it is all so dull, boring, functional and does not justify the high price. The seats are hard to adjust (dangerous if on the move!) as the height requires you to lift your body weight and let the seat catch you up, seatback adjustment is via a lever and you end up too far back or forward, much prefer the Lexus rotary nob. BMW seem to have addopted Vauxhalls daft one touch approach to control stalks and with the wipers I was never sure what they were set to, please can manufacturers leave one touch well alone.
Overall the BMW cockpit would have been ok in a base model mondeo or vectra but is simply outclassed by the luxury of the Lexus.
Winner BMW for space, Lexus for environment you takes your pick
Gearbox / gearing
Lexus - notchy from first to second, slightly long throw but perfectly useable, reverse easy to find. I have read numerous critisism of the high Lexus gearing, I agree it is not perfect and can lead to the car labouring but for me I loved the very high 6th gear, at 85-95mph were many of us drive when conditions allow, it is perfect leading to turbine smooth relaxed low rev. crusing. 60-70 on off driving on a congested motorway would suit 5th better which feels like top on most cars.
BMW - very notchy and rather unpleasant, this could be down to low mileage and seemed to improve noticeably if you pushed the clutch to the floor when changing but this is not how I like to drive. Reverse was very challenging to engage often needing several very hard and unatural pushs downwards and across
to engage. BMW have got the gearing spot on if only the box shifted better, see what you think I may have got a duffer as I normally love BMW gearboxes.
Winner - a draw, BMW if you get one with a good gearbox
Engine and performance
Lexus - The Lexus diesel engine was beautifully smooth and quiet and I really can't recognise the critisim motoring jornos have made. The power delivery is not as uniform as the BMW with a noticable lag till approx 1,800rpm when a huge dollop of power and torque kicks in followed by a tail off around 4,000rpm.
If it were not compared to the BMW, the power delivery would be seen as fabulous but it always seems to take a fraction longer to respond and wind up the power than the BMW. Refinment wise, I think the Lexus has the edge, more because it issolates engine rumble and noise better. There is no way I'm going back to petrol now we have such fantastic diesels. The Lexus is a little slow of the mark but in the right gear it goes like stink with effortless overtaking ability. On clear motorways you really need cruise control as the very tall 6th lulls you into a perception of slower speed, take your eye of the ball and you are hitting 120mph in no time and with the supreme quietness of the car it feels like 70mph
BMW - This engine is equally impresive for smoothness and quietness however it has the edge in terms of power delivery with a broad power/torque band very similar to a petrol. The engine intrudes into the cockpit more with noticeable rumble if your hand is sat on the gear stick at idel and a definite vibration through the clutch pedal if you leave your foot resting gently on the pedal at speed as I do. The BMW also provides storming performance and instant overtaking wallop, this is a seriously quick point to point car.
Winner - BMW by a fraction but both are superb
Economy
Lexus - I was deeply worried about fuel economy after reading scare stories of low 30's mpg. My economy over 761.1 miles was exactly 42mpg both from the on-board computer and by brimming and refilling the tank. Much better than I expected and close to my present A4 TDI average of 45mpg
BMW - I was expecting the BMW to wipe the floor with the Lexus and get close to 45/46mpg. Over 648.4 miles I averaged 42.5mpg again by on-board computer and tank briming. I expect the BMW will probably increase by 10% once it lossens up but not the convincing win I expected.
Winner - BMW
Drive,suspension and Handling
Lexus - After reading the press mags, I was expecting a disapointing drivers car however the Lexus handled precisely and kept its composure very well down the A701. The car goes exactly where you want it to and does not roll or heave around the bends. It also has excelent streight line stability making overtaking artics/tractors on narrow roads/lanes very confident. The ride and suspension are lovely and smooth unquestionably better than the BMW on good surfaces the ride is like gliding on air. Potholes and road noise are very well subdued.
BMW - One thing the jornos have got right is the BMW being a drivers car, it really does handle fantastic and you find yourself bombing down roads at a far higher speed than you would think possible. The ride and suspension are very good but definitely harder than the Lexus and a little more tiring on a long bumpy journey. On two occasions the BMW tail swung out then re-bit the road and streightend up nothing too off putting but somehow the numerous stability controls seemed to be asleep. Note I'm not one for switching such devices off. Overall if you live for driving like a bat out of hell and value this above a comfortable, soft, compliant ride, the BMW is for you but the Lexus is perfectly ok for me.
Winner - BMW for racers, Lexus for occasional racers
Equipment and value for money
Lexus - this is a no contest for me, the Lexus smashes the BMW on standard kit and equipment. The attention to detail is fantastic and the little things I though were gimmicks such as puddle lights and keyless entry are truely desirable once you have tried them. My car came with the ammitedly expensive multimendia upgrade, Mark Levison stereo (no I don't know who he is either), sat nav, bluetooth, DVD player and reversing camera, its worth every penny.
Check your mobile will bluetooth and transfer address book numbers as there are some compatibility concerns and I would rather have had digital radio than the additional speakers and amps which can't be appreciated when listening to Radio 4/5. I'm dreading replacing the Lexus in 3 years as it has every toy I
can imagine absolutely fantastic and great value for money. The DVD player let me watch the Simpsons when sat in stationery traffic - tops!
BMW - What a disapointment the 320d ES was. The radio is confusing and overly complicated, the ES has manual aircon no climate control or separate zones, there is no cruise control, the drivers arm rest is set too far back and for me was an uncomfortable obstacle which you can't move, you can upgrade to a sliding arm rest for peanuts but why don't BMW just provide this as standard? The interior made me feel like I was driving a bargin basement bottom of the range former eastern block car. I know this is one up from the bottom of the 3 series range and all my criticisms can be put right by buying options but the spec. and drab interior look was way behind Fords, Vauxhalls, Hondas et al and yet the price is way above.
Dealer service
Lexus - Went to Lexus Glasgow one evening rush hour to see an IS in the flesh, the sales woman was superb, taking time to tell me all about the car despite me saying it was a company purchase and all they might get by way of a sale was the servicing. A traffic warden approached and they offered to move my car
for me and avoid a ticket, they also offered to ring me when they had the colour I wanted so I could see it. I felt very wanted and special - fantastic.
BMW - Went to BMW dealer (name witheld) and asked about 3 series, the sales man pointed and said 'have a look they are all parked outside' and walked off
needless to say so did I.
Winner - Lexus
Niggles - Rear view mirror vibrates on motorway making it very difficult to spot police cars from behind and making you feel ill over time, digital radio would be good, 17 inch alloys on base model would be good
Overall - You can probably tell I was very impressed with the IS220D, so much so I have ordered one and it arrives 24th October !!!! can't wait.
I've read pretty much every IS review (Whatcar, Topgear, AutoExpress,Autocar,Test Drive,Fifth Gear, nearly spent more on car mags than on the eventual car and stressed Google to breaking point with searches) and I can truly say many of them are so so off the mark with their obsession with the 3 series, its good but simply not as good as the IS.
The IS is a car that makes you feel very special every time you drive it, gets lots of attention and is fantatstic if you have to spend hours every day at the wheel.
Hope this helps you decide which is best
Hope I'm still impressed 3 years and 120,000 miles from now
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