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HOTHATCH Shoot Out: Cooper S WORKS vs Civic TYPE R vs Clio 197 CUP

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    HOTHATCH Shoot Out: Cooper S WORKS vs Civic TYPE R vs Clio 197 CUP

    1º Mini John Cooper Works



    Ultimate Brit hot hatch looks and sounds irresistible. Is there a catch?
    Auto Express Car ReviewsJuly 2008The latest MINI flagship has more pulling power than any model ever to have rolled out of BMW’s Oxford plant – and we are not only talking about mechanical torque!

    Combining the classic MINI shape with thrilling performance and the legendary JCW badge has created a near-irresistible package for hot hatch fans. Not only is the car’s 280Nm torque output the firm’s highest ever, but chassis engineers claim to have cracked the problem of feeding more than 200bhp through the front wheels of a supermini.

    The new John Cooper Works certainly looks the part. Unique 17-inch alloy wheels, an aerodynamic bodykit and extra badges mark this model out as the range-topping MINI hatch. And make no mistake – this is no half-baked special edition. The engine, transmission and brakes have all been developed with the help of the MINI Challenge race series – this car has been bred on the track for ultimate driving ability.

    Under the bonnet, the 1.6-litre engine has a new, larger turbocharger to deliver even more thrust. Meanwhile, a racy exhaust system not only gives more power but also looks great and sounds fantastic.

    Climb into the MINI’s distinctive cabin and you will find only subtle tweaks over the standard Cooper S. A sports leather steering wheel is standard, while the H-gate pattern on the gearknob is finished in red. The final design change is found on the large central speedometer, which has been adapted to read up to 160mph. This gives some clue to the potent performance on offer, but nothing can prepare you for the JCW’s pace. In short, it blows all other hot hatches into the weeds. Press the start button and the MINI bursts into life with an angry burble from the exhaust. Activate the Sport setting to sharpen the steering and throttle response as well as give extra boost lower down the rev range, then hold on tight!

    We recorded our performance figures after heavy rain, and despite wheelspin in first and second gears, the MINI managed the 0-60mph sprint in 6.9 seconds – the same as the Clio and two-tenths ahead of the Civic, which were both tested in the dry. In-gear pace where traction wasn’t such a problem is more revealing – thanks to its overboost torque function, the JCW can provide 280Nm of torque between 1,850rpm-5,600rpm with devastating results. Neither rival could keep up in a straight line.

    However, hot hatches really prove their worth when cornering. Helping to harness the JCW’s 208bhp in bends is a hi-tech new front differential to work hand-in-hand with Dynamic Traction Control.

    Activating DTC via a button by the gearlever allows a little more wheelspin before the Dynamic Stability Control steps in. Holding the button down to deactivate both systems enables pure, uninterrupted enjoyment of the MINI’s chassis.

    It’s only in this mode that you begin to feel the benefits of the JCW’s ace in the pack – its new Electronic Differential Lock Control. Anyone who has ever driven a standard Cooper S will know the most frustrating part of an otherwise fantastic hot hatch is experiencing excessive spin from the unladen inside front tyre when exiting corners. Not so in the new flagship, which uses its clever differential to feed power to the other wheel if it detects any slip.

    The benefit for the driver is that the power output is never hindered – and neither is the fun! Use all of the MINI’s muscle to exploit the diff and you’re in for a treat. As torque transfers between the front wheels the car can dart through corners at great speed, the nose sniffing out the best line.

    Dealing with this torque steer isn’t something that drivers of the more relaxed Civic Type R or more planted Clio need to worry about. However, it only adds to the drama in the JCW and makes you involved at much lower speeds. What’s more, the steering offers more feel than the Renault and there’s a finesse in the pedal set-up and strengthened six-speed manual box that simply isn’t evident in either rival. The MINI is also more comfortable than its French counterpart on long trips, with a ride quality that’s firm but not crashy.

    In fact, all that’s lacking from the MINI package is the Honda’s versatility. This is not only down to its tiny boot and tight rear space; its manic character means it’s never relaxing to drive. Then you come to the cost. The JCW is the most expensive car here to buy: at £20,995, it’s at the top of the hot hatch price lists. Will the mad MINI prove too intense to triumph in this company?


    2º Honda Civic Type R GT



    Space-age looks of our champ won’t suit all
    Auto Express Car ReviewsJuly 2008A Full-sized compact family hatchback in the company of two superminis, the Honda Civic is the heavyweight of our group. And it’s not only the size that makes the Type R the one to watch – it is Auto Express’s current class-leading hot hatch. Now that it’s been on sale for nearly 18 months, has the Honda’s appeal dulled or is it just as impressive as ever?


    One thing’s for sure: the Civic’s visual impact hasn’t diminished. Although the space invader looks of the Type R will never be to everyone’s taste, its appearance is undeniably striking.

    Inside, the Honda is as distinctive as the MINI is retro. Designers have resisted making any compromises from their vision of the ultimate dashboard, and the result is an interior that takes a bit of getting used to.

    We can’t forgive the poor visibility caused by the windscreen-mounted rear spoiler, and it’s impossible to achieve the perfect driving position without obscuring the speedometer or rev counter. Reaching behind for the seatbelt will also be an awkward affair for most drivers, while the chairs don’t return to a set position if you slide them forward to let passengers get into the back seats.

    At least they are both supportive and comfortable, though, adding to the sense of occasion in the cabin. The seats in the MINI look ordinary in comparison.


    Press the big red start button that’s featured in all those Honda TV adverts, and the engine sounds quiet and subdued. Once on the move, refinement remains leagues ahead of both competitors, until you reach the magic number on the rev counter: 5,500rpm.

    It’s then that Honda’s legendary VTEC variable valve timing system kicks in and transforms the 2.0-litre powerplant from mild-mannered to hard-edged. Keep the revs high and the Civic screams because it wants to go faster, delivering a touring car soundtrack.

    The Japanese firm has always resisted turbocharging for fear of the dreaded lag interrupting the pure power delivery. Yet ironically, the latest twin-scroll turbo used by MINI offers a more lag-free experience than the Honda’s standard set-up, as it doesn’t need to wait for any cam timing technology to leap into action at high revs before it gets going.

    Even on our test track, where we were able to use the VTEC revs all the time, the Civic was the slowest of our trio, clocking 7.1 seconds for the sprint from 0-60mph. In the real world, the Honda feels more sluggish than the MINI JCW, often bogging down if you’re in the wrong ratio.

    Thankfully, you’ll never tire of the superb gearchange. It works perfectly if you balance the revs with the light pedals, whether you’re shifting up or down. To get the best out of the Civic’s engine, then, you need to push it hard. And the same is true of the chassis. Where the MINI feels feisty straight out of the showroom and the Clio has a menacing edge to its dynamics, the Type R is amazingly sure-footed.

    The downside is that there is so much grip available, the Honda needs high speeds to be enjoyed to the full – and that makes it less suitable for fun on the public road.

    Still, the Civic scores points with its wide range of skills. Not only will it keep up with its rivals on any road, but it’s also able to tackle long-distance journeys in a far more relaxed manner. Although the Honda’s ride is stiff, it irons out undulations and broken surfaces more easily than either the Clio or the MINI.

    And then there’s the practicality Type R buyers benefit from. No matter what you think of the cabin design, the rear seats carry passengers in comfort – and they will have space for plenty of luggage, too. The 485-litre load bay can be expanded to 1,352 litres if you drop the rear seats – a process that’s no more difficult than in the entry-level three-door Civic. There’s also a large stowage area underneath the boot floor.

    Both the MINI and Renault are left to feel like one-trick ponies when you consider the Jekyll and Hyde nature and impressive practicality of the Japanese model. Of course, given its size, it comes as no surprise that the Honda is over £4,000 more expensive than the Clio. However, the £19,000 Type R GT is yours for nearly £2,000 less than the MINI JCW.

    What’s more, if you don’t want the luxuries fitted to this flagship variant – such as climate and cruise control, plus rain-sensing windscreen wipers – the standard Type R weighs in at a very tempting £18,000.

    We admit that it lacks the slap-in-the-face impact of its opponents in this test. But there’s no doubt that the Honda’s abilities and appeal run deep.

    3º Renaultsport Clio 197 Cup



    Is it white magic for the stripped-out French flier?
    Auto Express Car ReviewsJuly 2008One thing each of our hot hatch trio has in abundance is heritage. The MINI’s history stretches furthest back in time, but there was a big gap from the last of the revered Coopers of the Seventies to the launch of the BMW-built model in 2001 – and so the bloodline of hot Renault Clios looks stronger.

    Picking a favourite is a tricky task for any French car fan, and enthusiasts have been reluctant to adopt the 197 into the fold. Still, with its Cup chassis, the latest model must be in the running with the classic Williams and original 172 for the crown of ultimate Clio.

    And that’s partly because it subscribes to the low weight, low cost, high performance mantra that’s always underpinned fast Renaults. From the outset, the car has the stance of a street fighter. In white, it makes a feature of its cost-saving black plastic wing mirrors and door handles and matching optional black alloys. The roof-mounted rear spoiler is arguably a modification too far, although the Cup received more attention than either rival during our group test.

    Inside, it’s a different story. We love the standard Clio’s cabin, but this car has an utterly forgettable basic black plastic finish. Only the superb bucket seats set the Cup apart as something a bit different...

    Test drive it in town or on a busy road, and you’ll take your cheque book elsewhere. The Clio has a jarring stiff set-up, and the ride is the hardest here at low speeds. What’s more, the 2.0-litre engine sounds and feels ordinary when pottering around.

    But before you write off the Renault, try it on the open road. It doesn’t have the step in the rev range Civic drivers have to get used to. Instead, acceleration builds in a high-rev crescendo to the near-8,000rpm red line, when the change-up light comes on and the fun begins again in the next ratio. The manic powerplant is identical to that in the standard Clio 197, albeit with revised gearing. Most of the changes come under the skin, where the Cup adopts the tweaks to the platform applied to last year’s R27 special edition.

    These make the Renaultsport one of the most accomplished cars in the class. Turn into a corner and it reacts with all the grip and poise of the Civic combined with the playful nature of the MINI.

    The Clio only loses ground to its rivals with the finesse of its controls. Not only do the pedals require a firmer shove, the steering feels numb, especially when this car is driven back to back with the JCW. If Renault could improve here, it would have one of the best hot hatches ever built.

    And rivals would be holding their heads in their hands if it kept the same price. The standard 197 is a snip at £15,995, but the pared-back Cup is even more tempting, at £14,995. So will it prove irresistible?

    #2
    Fonte



    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...vs-rivals.html


    Verdict

    With every hot hatch test that we carry out, the benchmark edges up… but this time the bar has been raised through the roof!

    We have a new undisputed champion – the MINI John Cooper Works is a triumph for British-built performance models. It’s the fastest and most flexible car here, while the handling is a revelation. The JCW shows that if you want the ultimate in hatch fun you need look no further than your local MINI dealer.

    Second place goes to Honda’s Civic Type R. Far from falling from grace, the Japanese model simply feels less manic, frantic and focused than the JCW – and less exciting as a result. However, its mix of practicality and thrills remains unbeatable, and on the right road it is still a great performance machine.

    Can’t afford either the Civic or the MINI? Don’t worry. Thatis where Renault’s white-knuckle-ride Clio Cup comes in. The thrills offered by the French model are simply unmatched at £14,995 – in any class. It hasn’t got the breadth or depth of abilities of its rivals here, but choose the Renault and you can use the money you save to pay for two years’ worth of petrol…
    Editado pela última vez por JtypeR; 22 July 2008, 13:20.

    Comentário


      #3
      Honda rulez

      Comentário


        #4
        Eu fico com o terceiro!

        Comentário


          #5
          Não sou esquisito, fico com o que me derem...

          Comentário


            #6
            Originalmente Colocado por warmthboy Ver Post
            Não sou esquisito, fico com o que me derem...
            Pra mim pode vir qualquer um desde que seja o Clio.

            Comentário


              #7
              Venha dai o clio

              Comentário


                #8
                Interessante. Gostava de ver aqui o 207 RC comparado embora esteja um bocado abaixo em potencia (175cv/260Nm face aos 200cv/Nm do Mini)... afinal o motor está alterado mas tem a mesma base. O comportamento deve ser bem melhor no entanto...

                Destes 3 (ou 4) ia para o CTR, seguido do CSW.
                Editado pela última vez por beowulf; 23 July 2008, 21:00.

                Comentário


                  #9
                  Originalmente Colocado por beowulf Ver Post
                  Interessante. Gostava de ver aqui o 207 RC comparado embora esteja um bocado abaixo em potencia (175cv/260Nm face aos 200cv/Nm do Mini)... afinal o motor está alterado mas tem a mesma base. O comportamento deve ser bem melhor no entanto...

                  Destes 3 (ou 4) ia para o CTR, seguido do CSW.
                  Bota ai mais uns 10/11 cvs no mini...são 208 BHP para os ingleses logo em HP para nós, deve rondar os 211 HP (ou cvs) e 280 nms.

                  Comentário


                    #10
                    Porque é que misturaram segmentos ?

                    Comentário


                      #11
                      Mais um clio aqui para esta mesa

                      Originalmente Colocado por rca33 Ver Post
                      Porque é que misturaram segmentos ?
                      Boa pergunta...

                      Comentário


                        #12
                        MINI.


                        Este deve prometer... amanha vou a apresentação... em principio não deve haver test-drive, mas se houver, depois deixo aqui o comentário.

                        Comentário


                          #13
                          Originalmente Colocado por RicardoHdi Ver Post
                          MINI.


                          Este deve prometer... amanha vou a apresentação... em principio não deve haver test-drive, mas se houver, depois deixo aqui o comentário.

                          ja somos 2

                          Comentário


                            #14
                            Essa apresentação é onde? É "acesso livre"? Horas?

                            Comentário


                              #15
                              Já agora, eu ficava com qualquer um desde que não fosse o Renôte.

                              Comentário


                                #16
                                Originalmente Colocado por bg2 Ver Post
                                ja somos 2
                                Test drive é no sabado...

                                Vamos la a ver se as rotundas estao "limpas"...

                                Comentário


                                  #17
                                  Originalmente Colocado por beowulf Ver Post
                                  Interessante. Gostava de ver aqui o 207 RC comparado embora esteja um bocado abaixo em potencia (175cv/260Nm face aos 200cv/Nm do Mini)... afinal o motor está alterado mas tem a mesma base. O comportamento deve ser bem melhor no entanto...

                                  Destes 3 (ou 4) ia para o CTR, seguido do CSW.
                                  A base é a mesma..mas os componentes do motor estao na maioria alterados e reforçados... pelo que nao tem nada a ver mesmo..

                                  Comentário


                                    #18
                                    Originalmente Colocado por FON Ver Post
                                    Test drive é no sabado...

                                    Vamos la a ver se as rotundas estao "limpas"...

                                    sabado?

                                    ja sabes mais do que eu.
                                    mas estas a falar de leiria,certo?

                                    cumprimentos

                                    Comentário


                                      #19
                                      Este mini JCW tá 1 espanto !!
                                      Quanto vai custar cá este "brinquedo" ?

                                      Comentário


                                        #20
                                        Originalmente Colocado por FON Ver Post
                                        A base é a mesma..mas os componentes do motor estao na maioria alterados e reforçados... pelo que nao tem nada a ver mesmo..
                                        Fiquei curioso, cá estao as diferenças (motor)

                                        Developed and produced in partnership with Peugeot, the turbocharged 1.6-liter four-cylinder direct-injection power plant packs 8 hp more than its predecessor. The new engine carries a number of detailed modifications, including specially ground pistons, a more rigid cylinder head and reworked valve seat rings along with 18.9 pounds of turbocharger boost.
                                        Editado pela última vez por beowulf; 24 July 2008, 01:40.

                                        Comentário


                                          #21
                                          Originalmente Colocado por bg2 Ver Post
                                          sabado?

                                          ja sabes mais do que eu.
                                          mas estas a falar de leiria,certo?

                                          cumprimentos
                                          Lisbonna.. Num qq stand perto de ti...

                                          Comentário


                                            #22
                                            Originalmente Colocado por beowulf Ver Post
                                            Fiquei curioso, cá estao as diferenças (motor)

                                            Developed and produced in partnership with Peugeot, the turbocharged 1.6-liter four-cylinder direct-injection power plant packs 8 hp more than its predecessor. The new engine carries a number of detailed modifications, including specially ground pistons, a more rigid cylinder head and reworked valve seat rings along with 18.9 pounds of turbocharger boost.
                                            From "motoringfile":

                                            "
                                            Fascinating power due to motor racing expertise.

                                            The MINI John Cooper Works and MINI John Cooper Works Clubman are driven by a true power package based on the current engine of the MINI Cooper S, extensively revised for the MINI John Cooper Works CHALLENGE racing vehicle and now back on the road with refreshed power. Even the basic design of the 1,598 cc 4-cylinder engine has details which are drawn from motor racing. The cylinder block and bearing housing are made of aluminum, the four valves per cylinder are controlled by two upper camshafts, friction-optimised cam followers and hydraulic valve clearance compensation elements. The outlet valves are filled with sodium so as to meet the increased cooling needs of a turbo engine. The camshafts of the 4-cylinder are composite. Instead of using the conventional die-cast procedure, the cam rings are made of high-strength steel and shrink-fitted to the actual shaft. The intake camshaft has a continuously variable phase adjustment function by means of which the valve control times can be adapted to the relevant performance requirements.
                                            The engines for the MINI John Cooper Works and the MINI John Cooper Works Clubman are made at the BMW Group engine plant Hams Hall (Great Britain) where the engine units for all MINI model variations are manufactured. In the case of the top-of-the-range engine, there are a number of special modifications to the production process to do justice to the increased output and the resulting higher temperatures in the combustion chamber, thereby guaranteeing maximum reliability of the drive system. The engines are fitted with reinforced and specifically ground pistons as well as a cylinder head with optimised rigidity and modified gasketing. The intake valves and valve seat rings are also made of especially resilient material, and as compared to the engine of the MINI Cooper S there is a slight reduction of the compression.
                                            More air, more power, more torque – the formula for increased driving pleasure.

                                            The power increase as compared to the engine of the MINI Cooper S is mainly achieved by means of optimised air intake and outlet due to an adapted turbocharger. The air filter, air mass sensor, exhaust system and catalytic converter have been modified so as to achieve a power-enhancing dethrottling on the induction and exhaust side. This is also reflected in an engine sound which is peculiar to this model. Due to the adaptation of the exhaust system, a significant reduction of counterpressure is achieved. The MINI John Cooper Works and MINI John Cooper Works Clubman fulfil the requirements for adherence to the particularly stringent threshold levels defined by the exhaust norms EU5 in Europe and ULEV II in the US.
                                            The through-flow capacity of the clean air duct to the turbocharger has also been increased. The design of the Twin Scroll turbocharger enables an especially spontaneous power build-up. In the exhaust manifold and the turbocharger, the channels of two cylinders are separated in each case. The supercharger blades are set in optimum motion even at low engine speeds. A turbine was developed in very high-quality material especially for the MINI John Cooper Works and the MINI John Cooper Works Clubman, and the maximum boost pressure was increased from 0.9 to 1.3 bar overpressure.
                                            The maximum torque of 260 Nm (192 lb-ft US) is available even at an engine speed of 1,850 rpm and up to a level of 5,600 rpm. During acceleration, torque is raised to 280 Nm (207 lb-ft US) by means of a brief increase in boost pressure between 2,000 and 5,300 rpm. This overboost function gives the MINI John Cooper Works and the MINI John Cooper Works Clubman an even more powerful response. The engine reaches its maximum output of 155 kW/211 bhp (207 hp US) at 6,000 rpm. The spontaneous response is also reflected in the car’s acceleration figures. The MINI John Cooper Works takes 6.5 seconds to accelerate from 0–100 km/h, the time required by the MINI John Cooper Works Clubman is 6.8 seconds. Both have a maximum speed of 238 km/h.
                                            Petrol direct injection: fuel is precisely measured and efficiently used.

                                            With a specific output of 132 bhp per litre of capacity, the MINI John Cooper Works and MINI John Cooper Works Clubman advance into the realm of the purebred sports car. What is more, both new models have the characteristic MINI quality of offering unique driving fun in combination with exemplary efficiency. The key function here is the fuel supply system. The turbo 4-cylinder is fitted with petrol direction injection according to the common rail principle. Injection valves positioned laterally in the cylinder head feed the fuel in precise doses under a pressure of 120 bar from the tank directly into the combustion chamber. This means that in every situation on the road, precise fuel supply is guaranteed which is adapted to the given load requirements. The average fuel consumption in the EU test cycle is at an unusually low level for vehicles of this output category. The MINI John Cooper Works makes do with 6.9 litres per 100 kilometres, the MINI John Cooper Works Clubman requires 7.0 litres. The respective CO2 figures are 165 and 167 grams per kilometre."

                                            Comentário


                                              #23
                                              Originalmente Colocado por rca33 Ver Post
                                              Porque é que misturaram segmentos ?
                                              Os hot-hatch são um sub-segmento à parte
                                              Não interessa muito se vêm do B ou do C.
                                              Se as performances estiverem ao mesmo nivel, são hot-hatch's comparáveis.
                                              Até porque os ingleses costumam dar mais primazia, pelo menos neste segmento, às proezas dinâmicas e performances, com aspectos práticos a serem postos em 2º plano

                                              Por isso é frequente ver-se carros de segmento B/C misturados nestes testes.
                                              Interessa mais saber se se equivalem em performances/dinâmica do que saber propriamente em segmento encaixam

                                              Comentário


                                                #24
                                                Originalmente Colocado por beowulf Ver Post
                                                Fiquei curioso, cá estao as diferenças (motor)

                                                Developed and produced in partnership with Peugeot, the turbocharged 1.6-liter four-cylinder direct-injection power plant packs 8 hp more than its predecessor. The new engine carries a number of detailed modifications, including specially ground pistons, a more rigid cylinder head and reworked valve seat rings along with 18.9 pounds of turbocharger boost.
                                                Mas a que motor se referem como "o anterior"?...é que já temos um works com 192 cvs se não me falha a memória, para o actual mini...e agora este novo works mais potentes (211 cvs)...ou referem-se antigo works? (que também teve mais que uma versão a nível de potência).

                                                Comentário


                                                  #25
                                                  não é por estar um ctr na equação, mas não consigo gostar do mini cooper

                                                  Comentário


                                                    #26
                                                    Originalmente Colocado por c r a s h Ver Post
                                                    Os hot-hatch são um sub-segmento à parte
                                                    Não interessa muito se vêm do B ou do C.
                                                    Se as performances estiverem ao mesmo nivel, são hot-hatch's comparáveis.
                                                    Até porque os ingleses costumam dar mais primazia, pelo menos neste segmento, às proezas dinâmicas e performances, com aspectos práticos a serem postos em 2º plano

                                                    Por isso é frequente ver-se carros de segmento B/C misturados nestes testes.
                                                    Interessa mais saber se se equivalem em performances/dinâmica do que saber propriamente em segmento encaixam
                                                    Ainda assim, é um teste pobre. Há mais alternativas. E eventualmente mais interessantes. Fazendo o tal "mix" de segmentos, naturalmente.

                                                    Resumidamente, vale o que vale, o ensaio.

                                                    Cpts.

                                                    Comentário


                                                      #27
                                                      O antigo Cooper Works era o ''tuning de fabrica'' como opcional. Este ''novo'' cooper Works vem de fabrica assim. Naturalmente com maior partido. Não fosse o preço absurdo para um MINI!!! tenha 300 400cv é sempre um MINI, ou os inteiores inspirados nos bonecos da LEGO, até é um carro bastante competente.

                                                      A este teste um que se podia juntar era o Corsa OPC (ex) , que tb tem perto de 200cv de potenia. os 175 do Peugeot são imputentes pra fazer face a qualquer um dos concorrentes...
                                                      Editado pela última vez por JtypeR; 25 July 2008, 00:28.

                                                      Comentário


                                                        #28
                                                        A diferença nisto tudo é só mesmo o preço 14 £ o clio 19 o Honda e 22 mil o Mini...

                                                        Comentário


                                                          #29
                                                          Originalmente Colocado por fapoc Ver Post
                                                          Já agora, eu ficava com qualquer um desde que não fosse o Renôte.
                                                          Excelente comentário...

                                                          Comentário

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