sniper contra os americanos
- Thread starter miguelsantos
- Start date
Phoenix
New member
Além do que muito bem disseram acima, esta frase define uma das razões para o qual os soldados estão mais vulneráveis
Qualquer força de combate sente dificuldades num cenário urbano, se a isso juntarmos funções que não deviam ser eles a executar temos a potenciação para a asneira, já foi assim em Mogadishu (Somália)e será assim noutros locais.
Uma patrulha que sai para uma missão sem assumir posições de combate desde que entra até que sai está sujeita ás imagens que se vêm.
Nem é no meu entender uma falta de treino é sim uma falta elementar de cumprir as regras de combate urbano.
Todos os olhos são poucos, todas as armas são escassas.
Sobre os Sniper's não esquecer que os Sniper's "rebeldes" devem contar com apoios locais muito importantes e isso joga muito a favor, razão mais que primordial para o sucesso no abate dos 11 militares dos EUA.
Phoenix
New member
citação:Originalmente colocada por Torres
Falando do ponto de vista meramente "guerreiro" e esquecendo a parte humanitária, que costuma ser antagónica da guerra, ao matares pessoal médico estás a impedir que os teus amigos tenham tratamento, logo as baixas que infliges são maiores. Há quem diga que a guerra tem regras. Não sei se é verdade
Torres a maior regra é esta
The Geneva Conventions are international treaties binding on all States which have accepted them.
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND
In 1859 Henry Dunant, a Swiss citizen, witnessed the aftermath of the Battle of Solferino and was horrified by the sight of thousands of wounded soldiers lying helpless and abandoned with no one to care for them.
This experience led him to suggest the setting up of voluntary relief societies who could be trained, during peacetime, to care for the wounded in time of war.
He also called for an international agreement to be drawn up to protect the wounded, and those who looked after them, from further attack.
In 1863 Henri Dunant arranged an unofficial international conference at which it was agreed that each country should form a relief organisation capable of assisting the Army Medical Services in wartime.
This was how the Red Cross began.
In 1864 governments were invited to send representatives to a diplomatic conference. As a result 12 European nations signed a treaty stating that in future wars they would care for all sick and wounded military personnel, regardless of nationality. They would also recognise the neutrality of medical personnel, hospitals and ambulances identified by the emblem of a red cross on a white background.
The treaty was called the Geneva Convention. This Convention was concerned only with soldiers wounded on the battlefield. Over the years, however, it has been expanded to cover everyone caught up in conflicts but not actually taking an active part in the fighting.
There are now four Geneva Conventions, which were drawn up in 1949. They cover armed forces on land and at sea, prisoners of war, and civilians. And all of them have now been accepted by virtually every State in the world. Britain ratified the four Conventions in 1957.
In addition, two new Protocols (a Protocol is an addition or amendment to a Convention) were drawn up in 1977 at a diplomatic conference (attended by Britain).
CONTENT
The Conventions are long and complicated, but they are essentially a series of 'do's' and 'don'ts' to apply during conflict to protect vulnerable and defenceless individuals. Their underlying principles can be simply stated.
The human dignity of all individuals must be respected at all times. Everything possible must be done, without any kind of discrimination, to reduce the suffering of people who have been put out of action by sickness, wounds or captivity whether or not they have taken direct part in the conflict.
The First Protocol extends the Conventions, taking into consideration modern means of warfare and transport and aiming to give further protection to civilians. The Second Protocol provides a code of minimum protection for the combatants and the civilian population during civil wars.
Summary of main points
The distinctive emblems defined in the Geneva Conventions are the red cross or the red crescent on a white background. In order to retain their protective status in wartime, these emblems may not be used either in peace or war except to indicate or to protect the medical personnel, establishments and material protected by the Conventions. (National Societies may, in accordance with their national legislation, make use of the emblem for their other peacetime activities.) In wartime they must not use the emblem to signify that 'protection' is conferred by it, unless specifically authorised to do by their governments: in this way the sign of the red cross or red crescent is itself protected from abuse.
The first Geneva Convention ("for the Amelioration of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces and Field") and the second Geneva Convention ("for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea") are similar, covering land and sea respectively. They embody the main idea which led to the founding of the Red Cross: if a member of the armed forces is wounded or sick, and therefore in no condition to take an active part in the hostilities, he is no longer part of the fighting force and becomes a vulnerable person in need of protection and care.
The main points of these two Conventions are: The sick, wounded and shipwrecked must be cared for adequately. Belligerents must treat members of the enemy force who are wounded, sick or shipwrecked as carefully they would their own. All efforts should be made to collect the dead quickly; to confirm death by medical examination; to identify bodies and protect them from robbery. Medical equipment must not be intentionally destroyed and medical establishments and vehicles must not be attacked, damaged or prevented from operating even if, for the moment, they do not contain patients.
The third Geneva Convention ("Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War") covers members of the armed forces who fall into enemy hands. They are in the power of the enemy State, not of the individuals or troops who have captured them
Prisoners of war MUST be:
- Treated humanely with respect for their persons and their honour.
- Enabled to inform their next of kin and the Central Prisoners of War Agency (ICRC, the International Red Cross) of their capture.
- Allowed to correspond regularly with relatives and to receive relief parcels.
- Allowed to keep their clothes, feeding utensils and personal effects.
- Supplied with adequate food and clothing.
- Provided with quarters not inferior to those of their captor's troops.
- Given the medical care their state of health demands.
- Paid for any work they do.
- Repatriated if certified seriously ill or wounded, (but they must not resume active military duties afterwards) .
- Quickly released and repatriated when hostilities cease.
Prisoners of war must NOT be:
-Compelled to give any information other than their name, age, rank and service number.
- Deprived of money or valuables without a receipt (and these must be returned at the time of release).
- Given individual privileges other than for reasons of health, sex, age, military rank or professional qualifications.
- Held in close confinement except for breaches of the law, although their liberty can be restricted for security reasons.
- Compelled to do military work, nor work which is dangerous, unhealthy or degrading.
The fourth Geneva Convention ("Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War") covers all individuals "who do not belong to the armed forces, take no part in the hostilities and find themselves in the hands of the Enemy or an Occupying Power".
Protected civilians MUST be:
- Treated humanely at all times and protected against acts or threats of violence, insults and public curiosity.
- Entitled to respect for their honour, family rights, religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs.
- Specially protected, for example in safety zones, if wounded, sick, old, children under 15, expectant mothers or mothers of children under 7.
- Enabled to exchange family news of a personal kind. - Helped to secure news of family members dispersed by the conflict
- Allowed to practise their religion with ministers of their own faith. Civilians who are interned have the same rights as prisoners of war. They may also ask to have their children interned with them, and wherever possible families should be housed together and provided with the facilities to continue normal family life. Wounded or sick civilians, civilian hospitals and staff, and hospital transport by land, sea or air must be specially respected and may be placed under protection of the red cross/crescent emblem.
Protected civilians must NOT be:
- Discriminated against because of race, religion or political opinion. - Forced to give information.
- Used to shield military operations or make an area immune from military operations.
- Punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. - Women must not be indecently assaulted, raped, or forced into prostitution.
For more information see the Red Cross web site.
http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/texts/doc_geneva_con.html
catalao
Banido
citação:Originalmente colocada por Peugeot Power
Napalm Death? isso é uma banda da pesada [}]
não era um gás usado no vietnam que era deveras mortífero?
Por acaso ouvi pouco Napalm Death mas considero bom "peso pesado"!
Napalm é uma bomba altamente inflamável e pouco volátil, ou seja, face à gasolina aquilo demora imenso tempo a que o efeito passe e mesmo que te atires à agua tens que suster bem a respiração dado que aquilo não sai facilmente e bem que podes continuar a arder após sair da água!
CarlosPinto
Banido
quem têm pena dos americanos?
MegaBreakDCI
New member
Um sniper é apenas mais uma forma de lutar contra o inimigo, pelo menos não estão a maltratar prisioneiros indefesos, como em Abu Graíb (ou lá como se escreve).
Não vi os videos em causa (vi as noticias), só não concordo em ataques aos médicos seja lá qual for o "lado" deles.
Não vi os videos em causa (vi as noticias), só não concordo em ataques aos médicos seja lá qual for o "lado" deles.
CarlosPinto
Banido
snipers com kalash são snipers de nivel,imaginem se tivessem armas a sério!
Phoenix
New member
Isso é completamente erróeno parce uma Kalashnikov mas é como já disseram acima uma SVD (Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova)-Dragunov Sniping Rifle
O alcances com precisão podem ir até 1300 mts (dependendo da versão)
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/dragunov.html
jmpub
New member
Quantos já mataram os americanos assim deste modo?
Quantos são treinados no EUA exactamente para isto?!
Quantos são ultizados nos propios EUA para aquelas equipas de intrevenção..
Aliás, é um metodo de guerrilha, numa guerra, usado desde sempre.
Por todos os paises.
Lembro-me de um filme acerca de um atirador assim, na 2ª guerra mundial.. dos que mais gostei até hoje, de guerra.. era um russo que ficou mundialmente famoso.
PS: Claro que faz um efeito nefasto na opinião publica dos EUA que se consideram acima de todos e sempre protegidos de todos e contra todos..
Já sei o nome do filme: Enemy at the Gates
Synopsis
All Movie Guide
A turning point in 20th century war history is the focus of this fact-based account of the 1942-1943 battle of Stalingrad, in which the Germans were finally defeated by Russian influence -- one of the bloodiest battles in World War II history. The film stars Jude Law as Vassili, a marksman from the Urals who is transported to Stalingrad in 1942, and a master German sniper, Major Koenig (Ed Harris). Koenig, an expert German sniper, is determined to eliminate his formidable opponent by any means necessary; meanwhile, Vassili has joined forces with Danilov (Joseph Fiennes), a young Russian political adversary, who is impressed by Vassili's skills and raises his profile in the Soviet Union. Both Vassili and Danilov become involved with Tanya (Rachel Weisz), whose Jewish parents have been captured by the Germans and have forced her to take up with the men on a sniper expedition. Koenig and Vassili begin to develop traps for each other, until fate inevitably must bring the two sharpshooters together. This large-scale production, financed mostly by Teuton companies, also features Bob Hoskins as Nikita Krushchev and Ron Perlman as an aging Russian sniper. Jason Clark
Customer Reviews
Number of reviews: 10 Average Rating: Customer Rating for this product is 4.5 out of 5
Quantos são treinados no EUA exactamente para isto?!
Quantos são ultizados nos propios EUA para aquelas equipas de intrevenção..
Aliás, é um metodo de guerrilha, numa guerra, usado desde sempre.
Por todos os paises.
Lembro-me de um filme acerca de um atirador assim, na 2ª guerra mundial.. dos que mais gostei até hoje, de guerra.. era um russo que ficou mundialmente famoso.
PS: Claro que faz um efeito nefasto na opinião publica dos EUA que se consideram acima de todos e sempre protegidos de todos e contra todos..
Já sei o nome do filme: Enemy at the Gates
Synopsis
All Movie Guide
A turning point in 20th century war history is the focus of this fact-based account of the 1942-1943 battle of Stalingrad, in which the Germans were finally defeated by Russian influence -- one of the bloodiest battles in World War II history. The film stars Jude Law as Vassili, a marksman from the Urals who is transported to Stalingrad in 1942, and a master German sniper, Major Koenig (Ed Harris). Koenig, an expert German sniper, is determined to eliminate his formidable opponent by any means necessary; meanwhile, Vassili has joined forces with Danilov (Joseph Fiennes), a young Russian political adversary, who is impressed by Vassili's skills and raises his profile in the Soviet Union. Both Vassili and Danilov become involved with Tanya (Rachel Weisz), whose Jewish parents have been captured by the Germans and have forced her to take up with the men on a sniper expedition. Koenig and Vassili begin to develop traps for each other, until fate inevitably must bring the two sharpshooters together. This large-scale production, financed mostly by Teuton companies, also features Bob Hoskins as Nikita Krushchev and Ron Perlman as an aging Russian sniper. Jason Clark
Customer Reviews
Number of reviews: 10 Average Rating: Customer Rating for this product is 4.5 out of 5
Phoenix
New member
O filme não é russo, é uma co produção.
Inimigo às Portas/Enemy at the Gates
Realizado por Jean-Jacques Annaud
Alemanha/Reino Unido/Irlanda/EUA, 2000 Cor – 131 min.Anamórfico.
Ed Harris interpreta o papel do Oficial alemão que era instrutor na escola de Snipers o melhor que os nazis tinham.
Jude Law o do Sniper Sovietico que acaba por abater o alemão por um erro cometido por este, erguer novamente a cabeça para ver se havia atingido o alvo.
jmpub
New member
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/soviet_sniper_article.htm
já em 1891 o russia tinha snipers..
PS: Eu sei que o filme não era russo, mas falava de um russo...
já em 1891 o russia tinha snipers..
PS: Eu sei que o filme não era russo, mas falava de um russo...
jmpub
New member
"...await the right moment for one, and only one well-aimed shot"
Vassili Zaitsev
The story of Vassili Zaitsev has long been believed to be a historical fact. However, there has not been any documented proof that the legendary sniper duel between Zaitsev and Konig ever took place. As a matter of fact, Beevor's account mentions Koning and other accounts mention a Thorwald. I am inclined to believe that the Soviet Command invented this story to inspire the beleaguered troops of Stalingrad in their darkest hours of fighting the German onslaught. As a matter of fact, I had an occasion to interview an elderly Russian gentleman who claimed to have trained under Zaitsev in Stalingrad. When I asked about the duel, he replied something to the effect of, "Its true if that is want you want to believe". I don't doubt that many duels occurred between the snipers of both sides. However, to believe that the German High Command went to the trouble to commit the chief instructor of their sniper school to finding and killing one Soviet sniper is a lot to accept. That being said the story goes like this.....
To study the 91/30 Sniper rifle, it's useful to understand it's role in the critical stages of the Great Patriotic War. One of those critical stages was the battle for Stalingrad. The Sniper was key to harassing and demoralizing the attacking German forces. As the struggle for Stalingrad ensued, the snipers involved became Soviet heroes. One of them was Vassili Zaitsev. He became famous after the press had discovered that he accomplished nearly 40 kills in a ten day period. zaitsevsn.jpg (48341 bytes)He was renown for taking out his targets using a single round. It was a skill he had learned while shooting deer in the forests around Elininski, his home in the Ural Mountain foothills. On September 20, 1942, Zaitsev went to Stalingrad with the 284th Rifles Division. As his accomplishments made him a national hero, and as his fame spread across no-man's-land, the Germans took an inordinate interest in him. Major Koning was dispatched to Stalingrad from Berlin for the express purpose of eliminating the top Soviet snipers. Vassili Zaitsev, was high on his list. The Soviets learned of Konig's mission through interrogating a prisoner. Antony Beevor wrote, "Like Zaitsev, Koning first made a careful study of the terrain and of his victims before attempting a kill. When two Soviet snipers were killed by single rifle shots, Zaitsev began counter-stalking Koning himself. The duel lasted for several days. During this time Koning shot a political officer named Danilov who was "covering" the duel for Soviet propaganda (Danilov accompanied Zaitsev and stupidly gave away their position). Zaitsev finally got Koning by offering another sniper, his assistant Zulikov, as bait. Zulikov positioned himself and lifted his helmet over a wall, where Koning put a bullet through it. Kulikov cried out as if hit. Koning made the fatal mistake of exposing himself to confirm the kill, and Zaitsev shot him dead. The telescopic sight of his prey's rifle, allegedly Zaitsev's most treasured trophy, is still exhibited in the Moscow armed forces museum, but this dramatic story remains essentially unconvincing. It is worth noting that there is absolutely no mention of it in any reports.* "*Antony Beevor - Stalingrad, The fateful siege : 1942 - 1943.
Other Snipers
Vassili Zaitsev - 400 kills (149 Kills at the battle of Stalingrad)
Vassili Zaitsev
The story of Vassili Zaitsev has long been believed to be a historical fact. However, there has not been any documented proof that the legendary sniper duel between Zaitsev and Konig ever took place. As a matter of fact, Beevor's account mentions Koning and other accounts mention a Thorwald. I am inclined to believe that the Soviet Command invented this story to inspire the beleaguered troops of Stalingrad in their darkest hours of fighting the German onslaught. As a matter of fact, I had an occasion to interview an elderly Russian gentleman who claimed to have trained under Zaitsev in Stalingrad. When I asked about the duel, he replied something to the effect of, "Its true if that is want you want to believe". I don't doubt that many duels occurred between the snipers of both sides. However, to believe that the German High Command went to the trouble to commit the chief instructor of their sniper school to finding and killing one Soviet sniper is a lot to accept. That being said the story goes like this.....
To study the 91/30 Sniper rifle, it's useful to understand it's role in the critical stages of the Great Patriotic War. One of those critical stages was the battle for Stalingrad. The Sniper was key to harassing and demoralizing the attacking German forces. As the struggle for Stalingrad ensued, the snipers involved became Soviet heroes. One of them was Vassili Zaitsev. He became famous after the press had discovered that he accomplished nearly 40 kills in a ten day period. zaitsevsn.jpg (48341 bytes)He was renown for taking out his targets using a single round. It was a skill he had learned while shooting deer in the forests around Elininski, his home in the Ural Mountain foothills. On September 20, 1942, Zaitsev went to Stalingrad with the 284th Rifles Division. As his accomplishments made him a national hero, and as his fame spread across no-man's-land, the Germans took an inordinate interest in him. Major Koning was dispatched to Stalingrad from Berlin for the express purpose of eliminating the top Soviet snipers. Vassili Zaitsev, was high on his list. The Soviets learned of Konig's mission through interrogating a prisoner. Antony Beevor wrote, "Like Zaitsev, Koning first made a careful study of the terrain and of his victims before attempting a kill. When two Soviet snipers were killed by single rifle shots, Zaitsev began counter-stalking Koning himself. The duel lasted for several days. During this time Koning shot a political officer named Danilov who was "covering" the duel for Soviet propaganda (Danilov accompanied Zaitsev and stupidly gave away their position). Zaitsev finally got Koning by offering another sniper, his assistant Zulikov, as bait. Zulikov positioned himself and lifted his helmet over a wall, where Koning put a bullet through it. Kulikov cried out as if hit. Koning made the fatal mistake of exposing himself to confirm the kill, and Zaitsev shot him dead. The telescopic sight of his prey's rifle, allegedly Zaitsev's most treasured trophy, is still exhibited in the Moscow armed forces museum, but this dramatic story remains essentially unconvincing. It is worth noting that there is absolutely no mention of it in any reports.* "*Antony Beevor - Stalingrad, The fateful siege : 1942 - 1943.
Other Snipers
Vassili Zaitsev - 400 kills (149 Kills at the battle of Stalingrad)
Papi
New member
citação:Originalmente colocada por Phoenix
Isso é completamente erróeno parce uma Kalashnikov mas é como já disseram acima uma SVD (Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova)-Dragunov Sniping Rifle
O alcances com precisão podem ir até 1300 mts (dependendo da versão)
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/dragunov.html
Grande arma! [B)]
Matar alguem a distancia é cobarde, mas ir num avião (ou carregar num botão e lançar um missil) e largar uma bomba que mate o primo do amigo do vizinho do terrorista e + 200 inocentes já está certo...
a unica diferença nestas guerras é a publicidade. morre um americano: "Ai Jesus" e mete tudo a bandeira a porta e vai a mãe e o pai para a tv chorar...
Morre um iraquiano ou assim e não se sabe de nada... e morrem muito menos americanos...
Nos filmes é assim que geralmente acontece, e deveria ser assim na realidade, mas pelos vistos não estão bem preparados, ou então têm a preparação, mas quando chega o momento, o medo apodera-se deles e não têm o tipo de recção que deveriam ter. Nesta e em todas as guerras, é preciso ter muito sangue frio, para encarar qualquer situação de combate, com o inimigo.citação:Originalmente colocada por Nthor
citação:Originalmente colocada por Messerschmitt
Nthor,
Responder ao fogo? Não há fogo. Há um tiro. Pronto. Mais nada. Senão já era um sniper morto.
Devia fazer parte da formação deles, depois de se ouvir um disparo, procurar abrigo e tentar identificar a origem e responder.
Uma das coisa que se ensina no treino de atirador furtivo é, procurar atingir o alvo e mudar de posição, se possível fazer novo disparo e abandonar a área.
Se os Americanos estivessem bem treinados, 1º haveria pelo menos dois homens a olhar em volta (pq há sempre um que poderá ver a origem) e depois saberiam que um disparo significa <<sniper>> (um tiro, uma baixa, geralmente não há feridos e se os houver só podem ser transportados se a zona estiver segura) e procurariam os que estão de sentinela em busca de indicações.
Nestes vídeos (que já andam na net há bastante tempo) nunca vi um soldado a reagir correctamente, nem grupos de soldados organizados, os poucos que parecem estar a fazer alguma coisa estão geralmente a fazer trabalho de policia inconscientes da ameaça.
Nthor
Banido
citação:Originalmente colocada por Phoenix
Isso é completamente erróeno parce uma Kalashnikov mas é como já disseram acima uma SVD (Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova)-Dragunov Sniping Rifle
O alcances com precisão podem ir até 1300 mts (dependendo da versão)
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/dragunov.html
Melhor que isso são os Portugueses, que usam G3 de alça telescópica nos treinos.