Tópico do motor Wankel (1957-...)

[RicardoAndre]

Epa desculpa, tinha percebido nesta página que o teu é que era, e não aquele preto que lá está:

http://forum.autohoje.com/forum-gera...-carro-23.html

[RicardoAndre]

Que tipos de consumos tem este bi-turbo RX-7? Creio que bebe mais do que o RX-8 e ainda por alguma margem...! Alguém com números que possa apresentar?

O dono do FD que eu conheci, diz que é possivel fazer consumos na casa dos 7/8 litros, a conduzir para o consumo, e que o mais "chato" é a disparidade dos mesmos entre andar devagar e andar a explorar o carro, aí os consumos aumentam mais significativamente que no motor de pistões, nomeadamente a partir das 2500/3000 rpm quando os turbos começam a encher

[Rotary]

Epa desculpa, tinha percebido nesta página que o teu é que era, e não aquele preto que lá está:

http://forum.autohoje.com/forum-gera...-carro-23.html

O tal preto é que é automático. Alguma vez ia buscar um carro destes com mudanças automáticas

Não sei onde ele consegue fazer os 7/8 sinceramente.. o meu está ali na garagem e deve estar a beber isso parado Eles enfrascam-se bem..

PS: eu podia ter parado antes do vermelho, mas ia queimar um pouco a travagem; como não vinha ninguém na rotunda segui em frente.

[DonJuanZ]

Sou eu, já te tinha dito que o meu é manual. Há mais manuais que automáticos. O red line é ás 7 mil RPM, eu podia ter explorado o turbo e a rotação até ouvir um som característico para meter a mudança seguinte mas naquela zona não.


Como assim a cuspo?



Sem puxares o bicho, 25€ dá para ~100 Km's (~16L/100).

E esses 16 é sem modificações ou não faz grande diferença?

[Rotary]

A única modificação que o meu tem é a Power FC. Posso até conseguir baixar um litro ou dois mas duvido em muito que chegue a esses valores. O meu cálculo é baseado em atestar o depósito com 25€ (dava algo tipo 15,87L na altura), e controlar o ponteiro. Depois com trajectos da terra a outra terra pela AE.

[Rotary]

Já tem uns bons aninhos mas muitos não devem ter visto,

[RicardoAndre]

20B ? 26B ? Sounds like a 787B

[Rotary]

Este é um 20B, são três rotores, o 767 utilizou o mesmo inicialmente - é o suficiente para teres o barulho do Formula 1 Dá para tirares acima dos 500HP atmosférico, segundo muitas leituras que tenho tido ultimamente.

[Neruson]

o motor wankel e mto mais compacto e torna se mais economico a baixos regimes ,houve empresas que comecaram a pensar em usar como gerador pra carros electricos ,pena que os lobies a volta dos combustiveis matem a nascença algumas boas ideias.
vamos ficar sem saber o desempeho do mesmo com GPL ou gas natural se fosse montado como gerador.

Se o hidrogénio for para a frente este tipo de motor é porreiro para fazer um híbrido gasolina/hidrogénio(vide protótipo RE).

[RicardoAndre]

Este é um 20B, são três rotores, o 767 utilizou o mesmo inicialmente - é o suficiente para teres o barulho do Formula 1 Dá para tirares acima dos 500HP atmosférico, segundo muitas leituras que tenho tido ultimamente.

O FD3S e FC3S também eram 20B ? Ou os RX-7 são todos 13B ?

[Rotary]

13B.

Mazda Wankel engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[FernandoAc]

O FD3S e FC3S também eram 20B ? Ou os RX-7 são todos 13B ?

Com o 20B vinha o Cosmo que era o topo de gama da Mazda dos tempos das vacas gordas.
Actualmente parece que tem havido interesse neste carro e ainda que em espírito não seja propriamente um carro desportivo aquele motor proporciona coisas como isto.

reparem o quão pequeno é aquele motor no enorme engine bay

Além dos exóticos 3 rotores, e turbo com tecnologia sequencial o interior tem detalhes interessantíssimos para o seu tempo, os bancos então são autênticas poltronas e o comportamento dinâmico também se conta ser de topo.

Convido-te a ver este:
Eunos Cosmo Features Tour - YouTube

[Rotary]

Tamanho do 13B, acho que já tinha colocado Stock Engine Bay - YouTube

[FernandoAc]

Speaking to PistonHeads at the Moscow motor show last week, Mazda CEO Takashi Yamanouchi said “I joined Mazda in 1967 and what motivated me was the rotary engine, and of those that joined that year we formed a club called Cosmo after the rotary engined car [launched in that year]. And in my current position I’m committed to continuing development of the engine.”

However, at least in the near-term, Yamanouchi-san says the future for rotary engines is as the power for range-extended electric vehicles.

“The rotary engine has very good dynamic performance,” he says, “but it’s not so good on economy when you accelerate and decelerate. However, with a range extender you can use a rotary engine at a constant 2,000rpm, at its most efficient. It’s compact too.


Rotaries will return, just nothing like this sadly


“It’s just one of the possibilities for rotary,” he says, leaving the possibility of a future, purely rotary engined car open. Mazda will launch its first rotary powered range extender EV next year, but will initially only lease a small number of the vehicles in Japan while it further develops the technology.

"Speaking at the Moscow show, Yamanouchi-san also said that the former Le Mans winner would like to get back into motorsport but the costs involved meant it would only be an engine supplier to private teams for the mid-term future."

in
PistonHeads Headlines - Mazda sticks by rotary

[Rotary]

Já tinha sido postado

[Phaster]

gostava de ver o chris harris a pegar num fd stock e fazer um dos vídeos dele

[FernandoAc]

Já tinha sido postado

Tens razão, tinha dado uma vista de olhos e pensei que esta entrevista apesar de também ela ter sido dada no salão de Moscovo fosse exclusiva e portanto mais detalhada.
No fim de contas acaba por não dizer mais.

[FernandoAc]

gostava de ver o chris harris a pegar num fd stock e fazer um dos vídeos dele

Ele não é nada apreciador dos Miata e diz sempre que o carro é muito lento, mas um FD deverá ser outra louça.
Anyway para quem tem um Ferrari V12 na garagem e sabe explorá-lo (tal como o Harris sabe), praticamente tudo o resto deve saber a pouco.

[Phaster]

[Phaster]

[gtabarth]

Excelente

[Rotary]

Não gostei, os pássaros demoraram muito a ficar calados.

[Phaster]

[xeLa]

Right now, a group of designers and engineers in Hiroshima are supposedly working on Mazda’s next sports car with a rotary engine. Nobuhiro Yamamoto, the company’s car chief, let it slip a couple of months ago that a “new RX-7” is on the cards for 2017.
This means it's still four years away. That’s an eternity in the automotive world and many things can change until then. Especially those that, as Yamamoto acknowledged, are “not carved in stone”… Well, they’d better be.

Just as most mass-market manufacturers are joining the sports car segment in a hurry, Mazda left the party after production of the RX-8 ceased two years ago.

Toyota has rolled out the 86/GT86 and Scion FR-S trio and has generated more publicity than any Auris, Corolla or Camry ever will – and we guess it will do so for quite some time.

Its Lexus division has lost money on each and every one of the 500 LFAs it has built, in spite of being so pricey that it made Ferraris suddenly look like a bargain.

However, it enabled it to compete in the major league and mix it with Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini. That’s something that can’t be measured in yens, dollars or euros. More than a decade ago, the third-generation RX-7 enabled Mazda to mix it with Porsche, too.

Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn made the new GT-R a top priority. Its sales figures are merely a blip on Nissan’s world sales map. Trumping Porsche’s 911 Turbo in the Nürburgring, though, earned it its supercar stripes. That’s from a carmaker which is making the Tiida…

Honda is bringing back the NSX. Even Alfa Romeo, which is on life support until 2015, at which point it will supposedly make its big comeback, will roll out the 4C mid-engined sports car this year. GM has made tons of noise about the new Corvette Stingray and so has Chrysler about the new SRT Viper.

Mazda seems to have put the Wankel project on the backburner and concentrate all their efforts on the new Skyactiv gasoline and diesel engines instead. The 13B-MPS Renesis that powered the RX-8 is now on display in the Mazda Museum.

Surely, they don’t need us to remind them of the Wankel heritage, the Le Mans-winning 787B that wowed the crowds when it showed up at the 2011 Goodwood Festival of Speed 20 years after crossing the line first at La Sarthe or the fan base of the RX-7 (mostly) or even the RX-8.

The rotary engine’s place is not in a museum but under the hood of a 21st century sports car spinning towards that sky-high redline. Apart from a halo car for Mazda, it will also give that GT 86/FR-S/BRZ even Clarkson is raving about the competition they currently lack...

Carscoop

[TommyTosser]

Até 2017 ainda vai passar muita água debaixo da ponte.

É bom ver um 'resurgimento' de carros desportivos, mas o que queria mesmo era um ressurgimento de pequenos roadsters/desportivos.

[Rotary]

Algumas coisas menos comuns de se saber sobre o RX7

Standard features on all 3rd generation RX-7's include:
1.3 liter sequential twin turbo rotary engine
Air to air intercooler
Digital Electronic fuel injection w/ electronic boost control
Full instrumentation
5 sp dual cone synchronized transmission w/ overdrive
Race type coil over shock- absorbers
4 wheel independent double wishbone alloy front & rear suspension
Power 4 wheel disc three channel Anti-lock brake system
Torson type limited slip differential
Wind tunnel body design for minimizing wind noise (falharam nisto :p)

[xeLa]

Nothing seems to scream “midlife crisis” louder than a low-wide sports car. Never mind it’s not a Porsche or (heaven forbid!) a Ferrari or that it was acquired used for less than the price of a new city car in entry level trim.
The color doesn’t help, either; perhaps a “Galaxy Grey Mica” or a “Sunlight Silver Metallic” would make the RX-8 stealthier but mine is a “Winning Blue”, which, for some reason, isn’t that common as red, silver or black.

Stereotypes die-hard and, apparently, sports cars are supposed to be a young man’s game. Like Jack in Lost, I let the fear sink in, counted to five and then got on with my midlife crisis' toy, a Mazda RX-8.

As much as I’d love to, I have yet to drive a 991, but I can’t understand all the fuss from Porsche fans, who probably haven’t sampled it either, about it having an electrically-assisted power steering. The RX-8 has an EPAS and its feedback is among the best I’ve ever experienced in any car. On that note, the original Honda/Acura NSX had an electric steering, too, and I can't recall anyone complaining...

The suspension is brilliant in conveying that seat-of-the-pants information that builds up confidence in the car. The previous owner had replaced the worn factory dampers with yellow Konis yet, although far from been woolly, it deals with road imperfections in a composed manner and without being fidgety.

The 2,700 mm wheelbase is noticeably longer compared to rivals such as the Nissan 370Z (2,550 mm), Audi TT (2,468 mm), VW Scirocco (2,578 mm) or the current "it" RWD sports coupe, the Toyota GT 86/Scion FR-S (2,570 mm). What do you know; it’s just 12 mm shorter than the European-market VW Passat family saloon!

This, along with the low center of gravity and the front-mid engine layout as the Wanker motor is located behind the front axle, make the RX-8 reassuringly stable and, at the same time, sublimely agile.

It also means that, although the center console that extends all the way to the back makes it a four-seater, it will accommodate adult rear passengers with ease. In addition, the “suicide” doors enable them to enter and exit more gracefully than in a two-door coupe.

Something’s gotta give, though, and in the RX-8 it’s the boot that is too small and has a narrow opening. On the plus side, it does fit two golf bags (or so Mazda says) meaning I’m covered in case I ever decide to indulge in the sport.

As you might have heard, all rotary engines consume oil and the Renesis is no exception, so carrying a liter or two is part of the RX-8 owning experience. So is regularly checking the engine oil level. Mazda recommends every two fill-ups of the fuel tank.

In a Japanese car that needs its oil level frequently monitored, one would expect the dipstick to be easily accessible. It’s not. In fact, it’s a right pain in the @*# to get to it since you have to put your hand into the engine bay between hoses and pipes with oil dripping over them when you finally pull it out. It’s something Mazda fixed on the 2008 redesign where you just pull a flap on the plastic engine cover to get to the (longer) dipstick.

Thankfully, until now oil consumption is much lower than I expected: in 9,000 km (5,600 miles) it has required precisely 2.4 liters. That works out to an average of just 0.26 lt per 1,000 km (620 miles), which is very good indeed for an engine that’s supposed to consume oil by design. I keep my fingers crossed and hope it stays that way.

Fuel consumption is another issue altogether. There are lies, blatant lies and then there are Mazda’s official numbers: 8.7 lt/100 km (32.5 mpg US) extra-urban and 11.2 lt/100 km (25.2 mpg) combined.

No way Jose: to paraphrase a premium timepiece brand’s tagline, you never actually own an RX-8 – you just contribute a great deal in Shell and the rest of the oil companies’ execs putting their kids through college and buy them their first Ferrari.

The best I could muster is a measly 14 lt/100 km (17 mpg US), dropping to a tank- and pocket-draining 18 lt/100 km (13 mpg US) or worse when revving it. This happens often as low-end torque is virtually non-existent and you need at least 4,000 rpm to move at an acceptable pace.

The silver lining is that it gulps 95 RON unleaded instead of the much more expensive 98 RON, so thank God for small favors.

Carscoop

[Rotary]

Pelos vistos o consumo do RX8 não difere assim tanto do 7. Não fazia ideia.

[xeLa]

Chamemos-lhe... coma e não fim

Llevamos escuchando esta canción meses, pero siempre nos gusta "repetirla una vez más" para que aquellos oídos más duros, resistentes a creer, se la acaben aprendiendo de memoria: Mazda no ha abandonado los motores rotativos de ciclo Wankel.

Esta semana la edición impresa de Autocar se hace eco de las declaraciones de uno de los responsables técnicos de la firma de Hiroshima, que cuestionado sobre el tema afirmaba que, tras el lanzamiento de los nuevos modelos con base "SkyActiv", Mazda retomará el impulso con un Wankel atmosférico que se beneficie de lo aprendido en los motores Otto convencionales, creando un coche de producción rotativo en un plazo que podría rondar los cinco años.

Esto nos coloca en 2018, con las esperanzas de ver una nueva generación del RX-7. De conversaciones con responsables técnicos de la firma nipona por nuestros propios medios sabemos que un coche con motor Wankel de la mano de Mazda "siempre lo usará acoplado a las ruedas", y no como un generador eléctrico. La gran duda es qué combustible quemará. Con una implantación de "hidrogeneras" que, tras los últimos movimientos administrativos, parece que irá en crecimiento en los próximos 10 años, un motor Wankel de combustión de hidrógeno, como los empleados en los modelos del RX-8 y Mazda5 experimentales, no sería ninguna locura...

Autoblog _{en Español}

[Fahrenheit]

O motor Wankel é um pouco como a Alfa Romeo, promete-se muito mas adia-se eternamente...
É esperar para ver, um futuro sucessor espiritual do RX7!