A Renault devia simplesmente selar pelos seus interesses, ou seja quer uma marca de renome de gama alta, se a GM estiver interessada pode vender à Renault a Cadillac (a minha preferida), a Saab (bufff) ou a Buick. Já agora uma desportiva não ficava mal para a colecção - Corvette e a rainha dos 4x4 a Hummer.
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GM na Aliança Renault / Nissan ?
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citação:Originalmente colocada por worldtiki
citação:Originalmente colocada por MLK
Vamos ver o que isto vai dar, é que a GM não é a pequenina da nissan, é um monstro que devora dinheiro como quem devora...
A Renault que n se ponha a pau e que não faça as coisas bem feitas, ao menos que prepare o terreno como a Fiat fez para uma rescisão.
citação:Os americanos deviam era ir para a terra deles fazer fortuna. Já tem um mercado do caraças, nós é que deviamos invadir o mercado deles. E com os chineses é o mesmo o que é que aqueles gajos veem para cá fazer, será que não chega, querem sempre mais, tarados.
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DaimlerChrysler Chief Unafraid of Tie-Up
TOKYO — DaimlerChrysler Chairman Dieter Zetsche said Wednesday that he isn't intimidated by the possibility that General Motors may join the alliance between automakers Renault and Nissan.
"We are certainly not afraid," he told reporters after a news conference in Tokyo to show a new truck model by DaimlerChrysler AG's Japanese subsidiary.
The possibility of a three-way global auto partnership emerged last week after Kirk Kerkorian, a major shareholder in U.S. automaker General Motors Corp., said he had approached Carlos Ghosn, the chief executive of both Renault SA of France and Nissan Motor Co. of Japan, about considering adding GM to the Renault-Nissan alliance.
Reaction to the potential for a Renault-Nissan-GM alliance has been mixed, with some doubting whether Renault-Nissan would have much to gain by taking on GM.
Zetsche said that mergers generally don't produce quick benefits.
It usually "takes some years to benefit from a merger," he said, while declining to judge on whether such a tie could succeed or not. He said his company will watch for developments in the talks among the three carmakers.
DaimlerChrysler, formed in 1998 in a merger between Daimler-Benz AG of Germany and U.S. automaker Chrysler Corp., is often viewed as an example of a global alliance that had produced shaky results despite initial promises for both sides benefiting from scale and collaboration.
The Renault-Nissan alliance, however, is widely viewed as a role model for such tie-ups.
Ghosn has a re****tion for turning around troubled companies with his record at Nissan, Japan's No. 2 automaker, since being sent in by Renault in 1999. Renault owns a 44.4 percent stake in Nissan, which in turn owns a 15 percent stake in Renault.
He has brought back Nissan from the verge of bankruptcy to record profits and sales growth in markets around the world.
The board of Renault and Nissan authorized Ghosn Monday to begin negotiations with GM, if the GM board agrees.
The GM board will meet Friday discuss a possible tie-up, French business paper Les Echos reported.
Detroit-based GM is struggling amid declining profits, high labor costs and growing competition from Asian automakers.
The Nihon Keizai Shimbun reported Wednesday that talks among the three automakers will focus on purchasing parts together and sharing environment and safety technologies.
Nissan and Renault will set up teams to study possible partnerships with General Motors Corp., including holding stakes in each other, the report said.
Nissan spokeswoman Mia Nielsen declined to comment on the report, calling it speculative. The report did not cite sources, which is customary in Japanese newspapers.
Cost-cutting by purchasing auto parts together was one of the main tasks Ghosn tackled in leading a turnaround at Nissan, Japan's No. 2 automaker, since being sent in by Renault in 1999, when the Renault-Nissan alliance was formed. Renault owns a 44.4 percent stake in Nissan, which in turn owns a 15 percent stake in Renault.
Collaboration on technology is relatively common among automakers that may work as rivals in other areas.
General Motors is working on an ecological technology called hybrid with DaimlerChrysler AG and BMW. Nissan is working on its own hybrid technology, but it also licenses the technology from Toyota for its hybrid vehicles. Hybrid cars get better mileage because they switch between a gasoline engine and an electric motor.
On Tuesday, French Industry Minister Francois Loos said in an interview with i-Tele television that France "should be extremely cautious." The French state holds about 15 percent of Renault.
In Chron, 05 de Julho de 2006
Está ao rubro... É um autentico fervilhar de notícias...
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citação:Originalmente colocada por Carlos.L
citação:Originalmente colocada por M6
Está ao rubro... É um autentico fervilhar de notícias...
Mas é uma autêntica loucura. Toda a net está agitada, pois a GM é uma instituição nacional. E a classe média americana não entende as razões...
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citação:Originalmente colocada por worldtiki
citação:Originalmente colocada por MLK
Vamos ver o que isto vai dar, é que a GM não é a pequenina da nissan, é um monstro que devora dinheiro como quem devora...
A Renault que n se ponha a pau e que não faça as coisas bem feitas, ao menos que prepare o terreno como a Fiat fez para uma rescisão.
citação:Os americanos deviam era ir para a terra deles fazer fortuna. Já tem um mercado do caraças, nós é que deviamos invadir o mercado deles. E com os chineses é o mesmo o que é que aqueles gajos veem para cá fazer, será que não chega, querem sempre mais, tarados.
Nissan-> 3,3 milhões
Matemática
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France says up to Renault to decide on GM
PARIS, July 5 (Reuters) - It is up to French carmaker Renault to decide whether to include General Motors in its seven-year alliance with Nissan, Finance Minister Thierry Breton said on Wednesday.
"We don't have to say whether we are for or against it. We leave it to the company to decide. We support the position of the board," Breton told reporters on the sidelines of the inauguration of the Atomic Energy Commission's new headquarters in a Paris suburb.
The French state owns 15 percent of Renault. The French company and Nissan have said they are prepared to start talks with the world's largest automaker about forming an alliance that could create the world's largest auto group.
GM's highest profile shareholder, billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, has proposed that GM management immediately begin exploring a potential alliance and the GM board is due to meet on Friday to discuss the proposal.
In Reuters, 05 de Julho de 2006
Isto está mesmo a fervilhar... Até meteram o governo francês ao barulho e tudo...
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citação:Originalmente colocada por M6
France says up to Renault to decide on GM
PARIS, July 5 (Reuters) - It is up to French carmaker Renault to decide whether to include General Motors in its seven-year alliance with Nissan, Finance Minister Thierry Breton said on Wednesday.
"We don't have to say whether we are for or against it. We leave it to the company to decide. We support the position of the board," Breton told reporters on the sidelines of the inauguration of the Atomic Energy Commission's new headquarters in a Paris suburb.
The French state owns 15 percent of Renault. The French company and Nissan have said they are prepared to start talks with the world's largest automaker about forming an alliance that could create the world's largest auto group.
GM's highest profile shareholder, billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, has proposed that GM management immediately begin exploring a potential alliance and the GM board is due to meet on Friday to discuss the proposal.
In Reuters, 05 de Julho de 2006
Isto está mesmo a fervilhar... Até meteram o governo francês ao barulho e tudo...
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citação:Originalmente colocada por worldtiki
citação:Originalmente colocada por M6
France says up to Renault to decide on GM
PARIS, July 5 (Reuters) - It is up to French carmaker Renault to decide whether to include General Motors in its seven-year alliance with Nissan, Finance Minister Thierry Breton said on Wednesday.
"We don't have to say whether we are for or against it. We leave it to the company to decide. We support the position of the board," Breton told reporters on the sidelines of the inauguration of the Atomic Energy Commission's new headquarters in a Paris suburb.
The French state owns 15 percent of Renault. The French company and Nissan have said they are prepared to start talks with the world's largest automaker about forming an alliance that could create the world's largest auto group.
GM's highest profile shareholder, billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, has proposed that GM management immediately begin exploring a potential alliance and the GM board is due to meet on Friday to discuss the proposal.
In Reuters, 05 de Julho de 2006
Isto está mesmo a fervilhar... Até meteram o governo francês ao barulho e tudo...
Além de que, se querem proteger as suas empresas, que o façam, quem fica a perder são os franceses e as próprias empresas...
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citação:Originalmente colocada por worldtiki
citação:Originalmente colocada por André
Renault-> 2,2 milhões
Nissan-> 3,3 milhões
Matemática
Bem aquela de que quer é que venda pouco mas de muito lucro ná ná.
A renault quer é ter uma marca de carros de luxo para prestigiar a própria a renault não é para fazer propriamente pelos carros de luxo em si.
hmmm.
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citação:Originalmente colocada por M6
Não deves ter lido bem a coisa: o governo francês (desta vez) não se vai intrometer.
Além de que, se querem proteger as suas empresas, que o façam, quem fica a perder são os franceses e as próprias empresas...
Desta vez diz que vai ficar quietinho porque não há, até agora, notícias da GM também obter uma posição na Renault (substancial pelo menos).
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citação:Originalmente colocada por worldtiki
Bah, o governo francês mete-se sempre em tudo, raios partam o proteccionismo [8)]
Também em todas as grandes decisões da VW, o Estado Alemão tem de dar avalo, pois detém mais de 20%.
É normal, estamos na Europa [}]
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citação:Originalmente colocada por André
O Estado francês é um accionista da Renault (a 15%), é perfeitamente normal.
Também em todas as grandes decisões da VW, o Estado Alemão tem de dar avalo, pois detém mais de 20%.
É normal, estamos na Europa [}]
Quando é que foi a ultima vez que uma grande empresa francesa foi comprada?
É que com posição maioritária ou não, a França sempre protegeu ao máximo as suas empresas de controlo estrangeiro [xx(]
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citação:Originalmente colocada por MLK
Costuma-se dizer quanto maior se é ou quer ser...maior é o rombo, e aprova disso é o CAOS na GM que é?foi?? o maior construtor mundial.
As vezes mais vale ser pequeno ou médio e ir marcando pontos do que ser guloso e querer tudo num apíce sem fortalecer as bases.
Vamos ver o que isto vai dar, é que a GM não é a pequenina da nissan, é um monstro que devora dinheiro como quem devora...
A Renault que n se ponha a pau e que não faça as coisas bem feitas, ao menos que prepare o terreno como a Fiat fez para uma rescisão.
E Afinal quantas marcas a GM detem?
Os americanos deviam era ir para a terra deles fazer fortuna. Já tem um mercado do caraças, nós é que deviamos invadir o mercado deles. E com os chineses é o mesmo o que é que aqueles gajos veem para cá fazer, será que não chega, querem sempre mais, tarados.
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citação:Originalmente colocada por Filipe Braga
citação:Originalmente colocada por Jeandré
No caso de se realizar, seria de todo o interesse que a Renault mantivesse o seu estilo de produto, aproximar um Renault do estilo Opel na minha opinião seria claramente andar para trás...
Cumprimentos
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Pois bem, esta possível aliança está a pôr os EUA a ferro e fogo.
Ora vejam, o país que está sempre a bramar pelo liberalismo e que está sempre a reclamar por a Europa ser "tão proteccionista", sai-se com isto:
"Nunca na história da gestão moderna houve um problema cuja solução tenha passado por unir esforços com uma empresa francesa", Washington Post
O tablóide electrónico de Wall Streat DealBreaker.com foi o primeiro a incendiar os ânimos, lembrando que o governo francês controla a Renault em 15%, tal como controla na mesma percentagem a EADS que fabrica os aviões Airbus, maiores concorrentes da americana Boieng.
E curiosamente é de um dirigente sindical que sai, porventura, a frase mais sensata:
"O que é melhor: uma fábrica americana fechada ou uma companhia internacional activa?"
Temos telenovela para os próximos meses :D
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imported_DêCêIi
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Nesta altura do campeonato, digo eu, o gigante GM precisa desesperadamente de se aliar a alguém, se quiser sobreviver como grande potência mundial, isto se não quiser começar a vender activos, como algumas marcas do seu universo (A Saab era bem apanhada).
Agora que a Aliança Franciú, Japunas, USA pode resultar acredito, mas se o Carlinho ficar à frente de tudo vai ser do género de "cortar a direito", que é como quem diz a GM vai diminuir e muito, para depois mais tarde (talvez) se levantar ou então arrastar os outros dois na queda, o que espero que não aconteça!
Seja como for, o mercado global (nomeadamente o americano onde a Renault não está) é muito apetecível e este é o grande argumento para a aliança passar de 2 para 3!
Esperemos pelas novelas dos próximo capítulos!
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Acho que estão a ver mal o filme... Os americanos não estão nem com medo nem em stress... Eles não têm medo de cair... A questão para eles sempre foi "quão rápido nos levantamos"...
Mais, essas afirmações nos tabloides não valem os bits que ocupam no ciberespaço. Se bem que essa afirmação de um dirigente sindical deixa-me a pensar porque raio temos de aturar o Carvalho da Silva e a sua "pandilha" que apenas desejam o imobilismo e o atraso de Portugal, lutando afincadamente para isso... Como seria bom termos sindicatos geridos em prol dos trabalhadores e não em prol dos partidos políticos... Bem, adiante...
Acredito que a GM não quer ser "integrada", quer sim, vender as suas marcas pois assim vai encaixar muito mais dinheiro e fica liberta para outras coisas. Além de que agora com a Toyota na corrida, a coisa muda de figura. Todos querem ser como a Toyota, em especial a nível de produção e qualidade, e esta pode muito bem ser a melhor aposta da GM.
Entre a Renô e a Toyota, em circunstâncias iguais (e até em algumas circunstâncias desiguais com penalização para a Toyota), a escolha "certa" pode passar pelo Japão e não pela Europa...
Respondam vocês mesmos a esta pergunta: Japão vs Europa, Renô vs Toyota, qual escolheriam?
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GM's Wagoner Could Answer With a Call to Toyota: Doron Levin
July 11 (Bloomberg) -- Rick Wagoner, chief executive of General Motors Corp., is a man on the spot who's running out of time and options.
An influential GM investor wants him to entertain a global partnership that could cost him his job. You'd imagine someone in such deep muck might at least consider a rescue by automaking's top dog, Toyota Motor Corp.
Officially, Wagoner has agreed to study a proposal by Kirk Kerkorian, who owns about $1.7 billion of GM's stock, to join an alliance between Renault SA of France and Nissan Motor Co. of Japan., run by high-profile turnaround specialist, Carlos Ghosn.
Wagoner and his management team are wary and probably will argue that the drawbacks outweigh any benefits. Wagoner's biggest objection might be that Nissan and Renault, after buying a 20 percent stake in GM, will call or heavily influence the shots, rendering his own turnaround plan moot.
The alliance proposed by Kerkorian isn't a bad idea on its face, especially with Ghosn, the chief executive of Renault and Nissan, at the helm. Assuming Wagoner has his own ideas on how to reverse GM's course, he can't simply blow off Ghosn. GM directors ultimately will decide, and shareholder interests are paramount.
Wagoner can't argue persuasively that his own strategy, announced last year, is certain to bear fruit if given time. He's won some union concessions, but the numbers remain dismal. Longtime GM watchers are growing more dubious, as are competitors, shareholders, suppliers and lenders.
In the Game
No, to stay in the game Wagoner must come up with a new and creative alternative to Ghosn. One possibility with merits is a strategic alliance with Toyota, the acknowledged world leader of the industry in terms of pure manufacturing skill and business acumen -- and soon to surpass GM as No. 1 in sales.
Wagoner could easily reach out to Hiroshi Okuda, Toyota's chairman and say: ``Okuda-san, I'm in trouble and need help. Would Toyota consider some kind of alliance with us that blocks Ghosn?''
Jeff Liker, an engineering professor at the University of Michigan and author of papers and books about Toyota, said the Japanese automaker would ``have to consider'' such a request.
For Toyota, buying 15 percent to 20 percent of GM on a friendly basis would be relatively cheap and probably enough to block Nissan. The stake would be small enough so Toyota wouldn't be stuck with GM's massive pension or health-care liabilities -- and perhaps might pass U.S. antitrust scrutiny.
GM could give Toyota unused U.S. plant capacity. Toyota's market capitalization is $189.3 billion, compared with GM's $16.7 billion.
Toyota, GM
Toyota, which avoids giant mergers, already has a few small projects with GM and it bought GM's small stake in Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. GM also has considerable warts; it's beset in the U.S. with labor woes, government investigations into questionable accounting, falling market share, a junk credit rating and bloated management.
An alliance with GM, though, might help to inoculate the Japanese automaker against what it fears would be a possible backlash from American consumers and politicians if GM ever were to file for bankruptcy. From a defensive viewpoint, Toyota also has to wonder if there's value in impeding a GM alliance with Carlos Ghosn that could grow into formidable competition.
Ghosn sometimes refers to Toyota as ``the beast.'' In his view, GM and Ford Motor Co. have helped the beast grow by failing to lure customers they should be attracting with their own brands.
Catching Up
Toyota and its affiliates plan to sell 10.3 million vehicles by 2010, up from 8.85 million in fiscal 2006. Nissan and Renault together sold 6.13 million cars and trucks in 2005. GM sold 9.17 million cars and trucks in 2005.
How Wagoner conducts the study whether to ally with Ghosn will be critical. Kerkorian and his confederate, Jerry York, a GM director, think the study should be carried out by a subcommittee of the board, assisted by a consulting firm; they're worried management will nix the proposal to save itself.
Another possibility is that Kerkorian and Tracinda put the spotlight on their own study, which York has been pursuing quietly. While such an inquiry would lack any legal or official status, it could take on a life of its own in the media and among investors, forcing GM management to defend its findings.
Kerkorian and Tracinda so far aren't identifying the major institutional investors they say are sympathetic to them. As time goes on, and absent a substantial improvement in GM's performance, investors will demand proof that Wagoner's plan is succeeding.
So unless GM soon has good news to report, Wagoner better make that call to Toyota's Okuda. Toyota could be an unexpected white knight, and won't do worse than to say no.
In Blommber, 11 de Julho de 2006
Com a Toyota na corrida, acredito que a Renô não tenha muitas hipóteses...
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Inside GM's game plan
Under fire from Kerkorian, Wagoner and his team take go-slow approach
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. Chairman Rick Wagoner opened the automaker's board meeting last Friday with a subtle jab at his largest shareholder's plan to ally GM with two foreign automakers.
While he didn't mention Kirk Kerkorian by name, Wagoner said "some of us are mildly uncomfortable" with how the billionaire investor secretly courted Carlos Ghosn, the CEO of Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co., a GM source with direct knowledge of the meeting told The Detroit News.
But that was as provocative as Wagoner would get at possibly the most important board meeting of his career.
Rather than fight the proposed alliance as many predicted, Wagoner convinced the board to take a careful approach to a deal that GM management is already skeptical of.
And in doing so, the 53-year-old chairman fired the first volley in defense of his own job.
Wagoner and his top executive team believe that Kerkorian is intent on replacing the GM chairman with Ghosn.
Kerkorian's "prime motive" in pushing for an alliance appears to be his concern about Wagoner's cautious management style, said the GM source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
But Wagoner won't be baited by Kerkorian into making a hasty decision on a deal that could jeopardize GM's North American turnaround plan and longer-term global strategies.
Instead, the GM chairman has put together a team of three of his most trusted executives to study the implications of a historic alliance between GM, the French automaker Renault, and Nissan of Japan.
The team consists of Fritz Henderson, GM's chief financial officer; John Smith, the company's head of global product planning; and Lawrence Burns, GM's vice president of strategic planning.
GM executives have already looked at a potential product sharing with Nissan and Renault but so far don't see any obvious gaps in the GM lineup that the foreign models could fill.
Questions also have arisen as to how a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance spanning three continents would be managed and whether it would be a costly distraction for GM.
Wagoner's first meeting with Ghosn is scheduled for Friday, but GM's internal study of the merits of an alliance is in its earliest stages.
"Given the complexity of any potential relationship, it has to be carefully considered on its merits before coming to any conclusion," Wagoner said in a statement last Friday.
A dispassionate and deliberate analysis is exactly what GM observers expect from Wagoner, who has weathered crisis after crisis in the past year.
While some GM executives complain about Wagoner's low-key, somewhat emotionless style, it's proven to be a strength as the automaker goes through a wrenching downsizing of its North American operations.
He led the protracted negotiations with the United Auto Workers that resulted in 35,000 hourly workers at GM taking buyouts or early retirements -- a critical component of the automaker's restructuring plan.
UAW President Ron Gettelfinger -- who could emerge as a key player in the Renault-Nissan drama -- said last week that he applauded Wagoner "for the calm he has shown" in dealing with Kerkorian.
But Kerkorian, who owns a 9.9 percent stake in GM, signaled that a Wagoner-led analysis of a deal with Renault-Nissan is welcome only as a first step.
"A full and objective evaluation of this unique opportunity will require establishment of a board committee that receives independent financial and legal advice," said Kerkorian's investment arm, Tracinda Corp.
Jerry York, a GM director and Kerkorian's top deputy, is expected to keep the heat on Wagoner in the coming weeks.
The GM source who spoke with The News said executives are aware that at least some board members are supportive of York's efforts to accelerate change at the company. York initiated contact with Ghosn in May, and set up Ghosn's meeting with Kerkorian last month in Nashville.
If Wagoner and his study team ultimately recommend against an alliance with Renault-Nissan, Kerkorian and York will likely press harder for a GM board committee to evaluate the deal.
GM management, however, believes its best chance at keeping the automaker independent is to continue showing progress on the North American turnaround. The automaker's second-quarter financial results -- which will be reported July 26 -- will be a key measuring stick.
"If we don't decide to endorse a Nissan-Renault deal, Kerkorian and the board can say, now what?" said the GM source. "That's why the success of turnaround plan is crucial."
GM directors are likely to follow Wagoner's lead as long as he shows results in the turnaround, one analyst said Monday.
"The board at GM at least collectively is of the view that GM is heading in the right direction," Rob Hinchliffe of UBS Securities said Monday during a conference call with investors. "I think that's the primary issue here -- does management want to give up control and get off what they think is working? I think diversion is the biggest potential damage."
The fireworks following Kerkorian's June 30 public disclosure of a potential Renault-Nissan alliance are over for now. Wagoner is likely to insist on strict secrecy in his talks with Ghosn. At least for the next few weeks, Wagoner can lay the groundwork quietly to accept, or reject, a deal.
Internally, GM officials are downplaying the potential savings and synergies that could result from a tie with Renault-Nissan. They say that GM is already deep into cutting $8 billion in costs this year, and don't see a foreign alliance contributing much more.
Beyond that, GM is invested heavily in its global automotive platforms, which will allow the company to build models off common architectures in various regions of the world.
Auto analysts -- some of whom are also impatient with the pace of change at GM -- don't see the need for wholesale changes like those made at Nissan under Ghosn.
"In the end, GM today is stronger than Nissan in 1999, no matter what the credit ratings say," said Glenn Reynolds of the firm CreditSights. "GM does not need a rescue."
In detnews.com, 11 de Julho de 2006
A GM pode não necessitar de ser "salva", mas necessita de mudar...
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imported_DêCêIi
citação:Originalmente colocada por M6
Entre a Renô e a Toyota, em circunstâncias iguais (e até em algumas circunstâncias desiguais com penalização para a Toyota), a escolha "certa" pode passar pelo Japão e não pela Europa...
Respondam vocês mesmos a esta pergunta: Japão vs Europa, Renô vs Toyota, qual escolheriam?
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