Tópico Porsche
- Iniciador de tópicos Nitrofurano
- Data de início
HERESIA
O sr. Ferdinand Porsche devia ter valor como engenheiro, ninguém duvida disso, mas o que é certo é que ele devia saber uma coisita ou outra sobre distribuição de pesos num automóvel! Para utilizar aquele layout num carro com pretensões desportivas, bem... sem comentários.Se alguém conhecer a razão pela qual ele utilizou este layout, avance com explicações, pois é um assunto que sempre me intrigou. Mas apesar desta solução errada, foi isso que fez a Porsche o que ela é hoje... os engenheiros da Porsche estão entre os melhores da industria automóvel.
Sim, é verdade, nesta última geração eles avançaram o motor para mais de perto do eixo, mas mesmo assim, a solução continua a estar errada.
no canal MotorsTV, numa corrida de resistencia em que participavam Ferraris, Porsches e outros, um senhor da Porsche dizia que o facto de estar a chover e ter pneus mais finos tornou o seu carro mais fácil de conduzir que a concorrência e anulou a vantagem das outras marcas, tanto ao nivel de potencia como de chassis.
Poxexo, não sei se te estás a referir Às 24 horas de Spa do capeonato FIA GT decorrido no fimde semana passado.
De facto, venceu o Porsche GT3 RSR da categoria N-GT (2ªa divisão) mas existiu uma convergência de motivos coincidentes muito específicos para a ocorrência de tal evento. Sobretudo registou-se a muita chuva que rapidamente evidenciou que o suplemeto de potência dos GT mais era uma desvantagem que atributo; Ortelli, o principal piloto da equipa, vencedor da Supercup internacional, é um reputado especilista de Spa e do 911 desde há muito. O carro não teve qualquer problema, e devido ao andamento mais lento ainda pouparam umas paragens para reabastecimento. É evidente que aquele carro e aquele pilotos não podem fazer milagres: precisam é que o milagre ocorra e eles o aproveitem da melhor forma tal como fez o McLaren F1 nas 24 horas de Le Mans de 1995, que nunca teria ganho a prova não fosse uma situação de coincidências que não mais se tornaram a repetir de modo a favorecer um outsider até à vitória.
Mas é verdadde e tem muito mérito o aproveitamento que a equipa de Ortelli fez da situação.
De facto, venceu o Porsche GT3 RSR da categoria N-GT (2ªa divisão) mas existiu uma convergência de motivos coincidentes muito específicos para a ocorrência de tal evento. Sobretudo registou-se a muita chuva que rapidamente evidenciou que o suplemeto de potência dos GT mais era uma desvantagem que atributo; Ortelli, o principal piloto da equipa, vencedor da Supercup internacional, é um reputado especilista de Spa e do 911 desde há muito. O carro não teve qualquer problema, e devido ao andamento mais lento ainda pouparam umas paragens para reabastecimento. É evidente que aquele carro e aquele pilotos não podem fazer milagres: precisam é que o milagre ocorra e eles o aproveitem da melhor forma tal como fez o McLaren F1 nas 24 horas de Le Mans de 1995, que nunca teria ganho a prova não fosse uma situação de coincidências que não mais se tornaram a repetir de modo a favorecer um outsider até à vitória.
Mas é verdadde e tem muito mérito o aproveitamento que a equipa de Ortelli fez da situação.
Bólide, é que quando «o sol e vento não estão a favor» o resultado é por demais conhecido... Que o diga Fisichella sobre o GP do Brasil...
Quanto ao «serem limitados», todos os automóveis o são! E são esses limites e formatações de categoria que acabam por ditar os resultados em função das condições de corrida que vão aparecendo e sendo vantajosas para uma configuração e o inverso para outras.
Quanto ao «serem limitados», todos os automóveis o são! E são esses limites e formatações de categoria que acabam por ditar os resultados em função das condições de corrida que vão aparecendo e sendo vantajosas para uma configuração e o inverso para outras.
Ok, me desculpem, estava errado o motor continua lá atrás.
Qt às razões de tal, vou dar a minha opinião.
Temos que recuar aos anos 30 e ao projecto de fazer um carro barato.
Ao posicionar o motor atrás consegue-se uma boa tracção nas rodas motrizes, espaço para o resto do carro e simplicidade mecânica. Assim nasceu o prototipo Zundapp, que deu origem ao VW. Projectos de Ferdinand Porsche. Depois da 2ª guerra e utilizando a mecânica dos VW a Porsche começou a fazer carros desportivos. E o sucesso foi enorme.
Os carros foram desenvolvendo-se e a formula, aparentemente anacrónica, ia vencendo. Venceu tudo o que um carro pode vencer (há sempre a excepção
). E ia-se mudar para que[?]. Ao colocar o motor à frente do eixo tens que aumentar o carro. Ganhas numas, perdes outras. E assim ficou até hoje.
É uma opinião.
TheMoBsTeR
New member
Segundo estatisticas recentes,o Porsche é o Desportivo favorito dos americanos.Tão a ganhar bom gosto.Qual Viper,qual Corvette.....
Nitrofurano
New member
[8)]citação:Originalmente colocada por levi
Eras dakeles k tb dizia isso qdo se falava em os motores deixarem de ser refrigerados a ar para passar a ser a água?
Nitrofurano
New member
Desculpem lá a preguiça...
Ferdinand Porsche (1875-1951)
Born in 1875 in Bohemia, the young Porsche preferred to be a mechanical apprentice instead of a university scholar while reading about mechanical theories at home.
In 1898, he was employed by Lohner, a manufacturer of electric cars and, at the age of 23, designed the Lohner-Porsche. This car was exhibited at the most prestigious car exhibition of the time, LExposition Universelle De Paris in 1900. Following the philosophy of Lohner, the car is electric, but with a unique four wheel drive system in which each wheel is driven by its own electrical motor.
The Lohner-Porsche automobiles sold well, offering Ferdinand Porsche the opportunity to design another prototype. A four wheel drive with an electrical motor in each wheel, and an electrical generator powered by a gas engine. In 1902, with Ferdinand Porsche as the pilot, it won its class at the hill climb in Exelber, Austria.
Porsche left Lohner in 1905 to accept a position at Daimler. During the next 25 years, his constant search for new designs and very low level of diplomacy resulted in many different design engineering positions with different companies.
During this turbulent time, one of his realizations was the Landwehr train, a train designed for the road and used by the Emperor Francois Joseph to bring supplies to his troops. The leading car, or engine, was powered by a Daimler gas engine of 100 horsepower, linked to an electrical generator. In keeping with the race car approach, all four wheels were equipped with an electric motor. This progressive design becomes even more ahead of its time when all of the cars became equipped with the same four wheel drive system, whose power was supplied by the engine car through cables. During the first World War, these trains traveled on difficult terrain to supply the army, and could also be fitted with special tires in order to ride on normal railroad tracks.
The "C Train" succeeded the Landwehr on the drawing table. Its intent being purely military, it was equipped with an 81-ton gun and four cars, each with eight wheel drives, following the concept of the Landwehr train. The total weight with cargo was in excess of 150 tons.
During the next few years, Ferdinand Porsche worked for Austro Daimler and Steyr before joining Daimler Germany in 1923. In 1926, Daimler merged with Benz, providing the opportunity for Ferdinand Porsche to work on the completion of the Mercedes S and SSK projects. As well as race car projects, he designed a diesel powered truck and a popular automobile.
Each stay at the above manufacturers was marked by his poor temper, which led to the opening of his own engineering office in Stuttgart in 1930. A few of his previous colleagues became his associates, along with his son, Ferry, who in 1948 assured the continuance of the company.
As the economy of Germany was declining, projects became scarce. The arrival of Hitler, however, would change Ferdinand Porsche's destiny. The Fuhrer had a vivid interest and passion for highways and automobiles. The concept of the "people's car" and victories at racetracks were believed to be major propaganda tools.
Having already designed two prototypes of popular cars with rear engine designs for Zundapp and NSU, Porsche, one of the leaders in automobile engineering of the time, became the perfect candidate. Even though he was not a regime card carrier, Porsche was not suspicious. His birth place had been in the same region as the Fuhrer's, which probably helped.
In 1934, the order to design and build the first "people-s car" was received and the first prototypes were built in the garage of Ferdinand Porsche's villa in Stuttgart. Under the direction of Porsche, Daimler Benz produced 30 prototypes in 1937. These cars were given to the SS and underwent the most rigorous testing.
The German automakers, however, did not have much interest in the contract to build these cars because of a low selling price (990 Marks) facilitated by Hitler. The work syndicate became the only solution and the car was to be named the KDF, and subsidized by the government.
WWII was here and the "people's car" was not built. The factory instead built the Kubelwagen, the military version, followed by the Schwimwagen, an amphibian vehicle. Both cars were designed in an expedient manner by Porsche. This is how the Volkswagen Beetle became such a success, benefitting from a harsh five-year development program.
Ferdinand Porsche actively participated in other military projects, among them the tank named "Tiger" and an electric/diesel super tank weighing more than 188 tons. The latter was never produced due to the end of the war.
Prior to the war, Porsche's design of a central engine race car was very successful, giving him, a respectable amount of credibility. Another race car prepared by Porsche and also the first car to use the Porsche name, was designed closely to the KDF This car was to be entered in the Berlin-Rome Rally, but, due to war consequences, the race never took place.
After the war, Porsche spent 20 months in a French prison and could not help in the restructuring of this company. It was his son, Ferry, who along with some of his father's associates, reopened the business.
Dr. Porsche (as he was addressed after receiving his honorary doctorate degree from the University of Stuttgart) was certainly the most prolific designer during the first half of the 20th century.
He designed a car during the 1930s which is still being built 50 years later (in Mexico). He designed front wheel drive cars as well as rear and central engine cars. His trucks and tractors used electrical traction, water- or air-cooled combustion engines, and not to forget the diesel/electric train.
His racing achievements include victories and world records for Lohner, Austro Daimler and Auto Union.
Last but not least, he was an engineer for the military in Austria during WWI and Germany during WWII. He designed and built all-terrain vehicles, gun vehicles and tanks.
Today, the Porsche name is the most successful in car racing and by far a preference among sports car enthusiasts due to his son's and grandchildren's involvement with the engineering company he created.
Dr. Porsche died in 1951 at the age of 75.
Ferdinand Porsche (1875-1951)
Born in 1875 in Bohemia, the young Porsche preferred to be a mechanical apprentice instead of a university scholar while reading about mechanical theories at home.
In 1898, he was employed by Lohner, a manufacturer of electric cars and, at the age of 23, designed the Lohner-Porsche. This car was exhibited at the most prestigious car exhibition of the time, LExposition Universelle De Paris in 1900. Following the philosophy of Lohner, the car is electric, but with a unique four wheel drive system in which each wheel is driven by its own electrical motor.
The Lohner-Porsche automobiles sold well, offering Ferdinand Porsche the opportunity to design another prototype. A four wheel drive with an electrical motor in each wheel, and an electrical generator powered by a gas engine. In 1902, with Ferdinand Porsche as the pilot, it won its class at the hill climb in Exelber, Austria.
Porsche left Lohner in 1905 to accept a position at Daimler. During the next 25 years, his constant search for new designs and very low level of diplomacy resulted in many different design engineering positions with different companies.
During this turbulent time, one of his realizations was the Landwehr train, a train designed for the road and used by the Emperor Francois Joseph to bring supplies to his troops. The leading car, or engine, was powered by a Daimler gas engine of 100 horsepower, linked to an electrical generator. In keeping with the race car approach, all four wheels were equipped with an electric motor. This progressive design becomes even more ahead of its time when all of the cars became equipped with the same four wheel drive system, whose power was supplied by the engine car through cables. During the first World War, these trains traveled on difficult terrain to supply the army, and could also be fitted with special tires in order to ride on normal railroad tracks.
The "C Train" succeeded the Landwehr on the drawing table. Its intent being purely military, it was equipped with an 81-ton gun and four cars, each with eight wheel drives, following the concept of the Landwehr train. The total weight with cargo was in excess of 150 tons.
During the next few years, Ferdinand Porsche worked for Austro Daimler and Steyr before joining Daimler Germany in 1923. In 1926, Daimler merged with Benz, providing the opportunity for Ferdinand Porsche to work on the completion of the Mercedes S and SSK projects. As well as race car projects, he designed a diesel powered truck and a popular automobile.
Each stay at the above manufacturers was marked by his poor temper, which led to the opening of his own engineering office in Stuttgart in 1930. A few of his previous colleagues became his associates, along with his son, Ferry, who in 1948 assured the continuance of the company.
As the economy of Germany was declining, projects became scarce. The arrival of Hitler, however, would change Ferdinand Porsche's destiny. The Fuhrer had a vivid interest and passion for highways and automobiles. The concept of the "people's car" and victories at racetracks were believed to be major propaganda tools.
Having already designed two prototypes of popular cars with rear engine designs for Zundapp and NSU, Porsche, one of the leaders in automobile engineering of the time, became the perfect candidate. Even though he was not a regime card carrier, Porsche was not suspicious. His birth place had been in the same region as the Fuhrer's, which probably helped.
In 1934, the order to design and build the first "people-s car" was received and the first prototypes were built in the garage of Ferdinand Porsche's villa in Stuttgart. Under the direction of Porsche, Daimler Benz produced 30 prototypes in 1937. These cars were given to the SS and underwent the most rigorous testing.
The German automakers, however, did not have much interest in the contract to build these cars because of a low selling price (990 Marks) facilitated by Hitler. The work syndicate became the only solution and the car was to be named the KDF, and subsidized by the government.
WWII was here and the "people's car" was not built. The factory instead built the Kubelwagen, the military version, followed by the Schwimwagen, an amphibian vehicle. Both cars were designed in an expedient manner by Porsche. This is how the Volkswagen Beetle became such a success, benefitting from a harsh five-year development program.
Ferdinand Porsche actively participated in other military projects, among them the tank named "Tiger" and an electric/diesel super tank weighing more than 188 tons. The latter was never produced due to the end of the war.
Prior to the war, Porsche's design of a central engine race car was very successful, giving him, a respectable amount of credibility. Another race car prepared by Porsche and also the first car to use the Porsche name, was designed closely to the KDF This car was to be entered in the Berlin-Rome Rally, but, due to war consequences, the race never took place.
After the war, Porsche spent 20 months in a French prison and could not help in the restructuring of this company. It was his son, Ferry, who along with some of his father's associates, reopened the business.
Dr. Porsche (as he was addressed after receiving his honorary doctorate degree from the University of Stuttgart) was certainly the most prolific designer during the first half of the 20th century.
He designed a car during the 1930s which is still being built 50 years later (in Mexico). He designed front wheel drive cars as well as rear and central engine cars. His trucks and tractors used electrical traction, water- or air-cooled combustion engines, and not to forget the diesel/electric train.
His racing achievements include victories and world records for Lohner, Austro Daimler and Auto Union.
Last but not least, he was an engineer for the military in Austria during WWI and Germany during WWII. He designed and built all-terrain vehicles, gun vehicles and tanks.
Today, the Porsche name is the most successful in car racing and by far a preference among sports car enthusiasts due to his son's and grandchildren's involvement with the engineering company he created.
Dr. Porsche died in 1951 at the age of 75.
Nitrofurano
New member
Que vida recheada de coisas boas, a deste homem!
TheMoBsTeR
New member
Inda dizem os americanos que eles é que fazem os melhores carros.Quem lhes dera ter um Dr.Porsche ou um Daimler ou um Maybach...Henry Ford só, não chega.
Nitrofurano
New member
Os americanos, os melhores carros...
rotfl
Americano, só Ford, e é porque a Ford de cá é bem diferente da de lá, é quase europeia! De resto, não os quero para nada. Eu rio-me dos carros americanos.
rotfl
Americano, só Ford, e é porque a Ford de cá é bem diferente da de lá, é quase europeia! De resto, não os quero para nada. Eu rio-me dos carros americanos.
TheMoBsTeR
New member
Há americanos que dizem que o melhor carro de sempre é o Dodge Coronet R/T......